• yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    59 minutes ago

    Math exists in the minds of humans, [not animals].

    This is incorrect. Every animal we’ve ever researched, including insects like bees, can do arithmetic.

    Anyway, not a single one of the examples you’ve given involves second-order reasoning. These are all prosaic interactions with the environment, which is how most animas (yes, including dumb humans) experience the world.

    First-order reasoning: “What is moral?” Second-order reasoning: “Do moral beliefs constitute knowledge claims?”

    First-order reasoning: “One plus one is two.” Second-order reasoning: “number theory is either inconsistent or incomplete.”

    First-order reasoning: “What does this word mean?” Second-order reasoning: “How do words connect with their meanings?”

    The examples I gave you are extreme, but to be fair so is your confusion.

    • theneverfox@pawb.social
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      11 hours ago

      I believe that orcas are out there having philosophical debates and singing stories of their history and mythology that dates back even further than our own. I don’t think they’re doing math proofs, but if they are I’d be curious what base they use

      All the cutting edge science suggests we’re not special. We are not different in kind from animals

      Since science became a thing, we’ve been drawing lines between us and animals since we could no longer gesture to the soul. We’ve progressively disproven every single one. I’ve had this debate over various lines so many times

      It’s human arrogance