Something I’ve noticed in this community is that whenever I criticize Steam, or point out something I don’t like about the platform, I tend to get a ton of downvotes.
And honestly, I’m just curious why.
This is a piracy-oriented community, so I find it kinda interesting that Steam seems to have such a strong positive reputation here. I’m not saying people shouldn’t like Steam, obviously everyone has their own reasons for using it. Steam is convenient, has huge sales, supports Linux, has a massive library of games, etc. I completely get why people use it.
I’m just wondering where the line is for people.
For example, do you like Steam despite the DRM because the convenience outweighs the negatives? Do you see Steam as fundamentally different from other forms of DRM? Do you consider Valve one of the “good guys” in the industry? Or do you simply see Steam as a convenient storefront and don’t really think much about the DRM side of it?
Or maybe you actually agree with some of the criticism of Steam, but just think it’s being exaggerated.
For me personally, I don’t use Steam because I don’t really like having my games tied to an account and a platform. I’d rather have the actual files, be able to back them up, move them around, mod them and know that I still have them years later. That’s basically what I was getting at in that video I made about Steam as well.
But I’m not trying to start another “Steam bad!” argument here. I’m genuinely curious because sometimes the reaction seems surprisingly pro-Steam considering the nature of this community.
So what is it about Steam that you guys actually appreciate?
Just because Steam offers a DRM option doesn’t mean that it’s mandatory:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_SteamCan’t speak for others but they haven’t enshitified and I feel that their offering is fair. So while there are fair criticisms to level in my mind they are still more good than bad.
The contribution to Linux development offsets the DRM.
I have a steam deck and play on pc too, and steam sync it’s really convenient. And i like how after i finish a game, I can delete it to save space, then come back 2 years later and my save files will still be in the cloud, without me thinking about it too hard
Yes, I know there’s syncthing, and I use it to sync save files of 1 game, but urghh it’s complex to set up
I’m one of the people that appreciates Steam, but doesn’t trust it because their good will can disappear at the drop of a cent. There’s no guarantee they can’t and won’t go evil.
They don’t want to moderate the rampant Nazis in their forum and games you “buy” are just actually loans. If steam shuts down today, every game you bought is gone. So I’m taking precautions and buying from stores that do provide games without DRM.
Steam isn’t perfect and won’t ever be. It’s pretty, but won’t always be. I can criticise the bad parts because I’m not some fanboy cuck.
So I’m taking precautions and buying from stores that do provide games without DRM.
Same, although I wish I could simply pirate it all.
I already do for some stuff, pop it in sandboxie. But I don’t trust that entirely.
Lets see:
- Good prices if you are a bit patient and want to support devs
- seamless linux integration nowadays - Proton is a blessing!
- DRM is the decision of the publisher - not required by steam in any way - and the offered standard DRM is so weak that it doesn’t really exist while also respecting you as a costumer (no hardware binding, no limited activations and so on - if a game has that, it’s the publishers bad decision)
- steam workshop is the easiest way to get into modding by far
- autoupdater for all your games (and mods when using workshop)
- integrated overlay offering guides and discussion forums
- steam input is awesome and powerful, while not being overly complicated, and also works on non-steam games (the overlay does too - opening a game wiki in the overlay is pretty handy)
- switching between offered builds/betas takes 3 clicks
- steamworks making multiplayer easy - rightclick your friend and invite into the running game
- discovery queue is a pretty good feature - i tend to run one or two every month just to keep up on whats new and up my alley
- creates a news and patchnotes stream out of your library and store follows, making sure you always are informed even if a game isn’t currently installed, for example when you are waiting for some specific feature / content in a game
- easy managing of your installed games with a good overview of used space and when you last used that 80GB behemoth of a game
- Steam inhome streaming is pretty good and readily available, and also enables mixed remote/local couch gaming; i prefer moonlight/sunshine, but it’s deffo more involved than clicking on the “Stream” button.
- Family sharing makes my library availabe to 5 other people free of charge
Don’t get me wrong, i am someone who collects game repacks in large volumes, so i am completely fine with piracy as it is. but i also want to give game devs that have created something special financial security so they can continue doing their thing. That means games that i actually want to continue playing after testing them out sooner or later land in my library, at a price point that i a) can afford, since i am a small time pensioner and b) that i perceive as fair for the product in comparison to how much joy the game brought me. My wishlist is primarily a “reminder to buy because they deserve it” list. In some cases this can even result in paying the full new release price (Baldurs Gate 3 e.g, and CP2077 - this has more to do with my fandom towards the pen&paper RPG tho, and i am happy that the game has evolved to something where i can say i am proud i paid full price)
Steam does a lot of good stuff, and they remembered that the third world exists. It’s annoying looking at prices on other stores and seeing a game cost 10 - 20% of my country’s average monthly income.
As to your actual question - because most criticism of steam I see here appears to be rooted in wishful thinking rather than any actual logical consideration.
I very much am of the opinion that piracy is a usability & accessibility issue. I believe that if someone spends a lot of time on a quality product that I very much enjoy, I should pay for it. Even from a completely selfish point of view, if I never pay, the gaming industry will be based solely on the dummies that don’t know how to pirate properly, and will thus be filled to the brim with trash. I’m not going to do moral grandstanding on a piracy subreddit if people disagree, this is my personal view. I remember not having any money. I still don’t have much really but enough to support some of the creators I like. I still pirate some games that I may enjoy, but do not want to support the terrible corporations that churn them out.
Steam is one of the best ways to buy games in existence. Would I prefer them to not have DRM? Sure. Would I prefer a few other things, like not allowing third party launchers, kernel level anti-cheat, or any Ai generate content? Sure. But the fact remains, they’re one of the last companies that seem to remember UX matters. They also are dumping money into rapidly improving Linux as a whole, especially for gaming. If they were not so good, I would not give them money. It is really as simple as that.
Your 2nd paragraph sounds just like GOG ! I tend whenever possible to get my games from GOG than Steam.
After their recent Nazi symbolism affair I’m not really feeling like spending any money there.
They knowingly used runes associated with Nazism in a promotional newsletter in a manner that only Nazis are using them - and they knew they were doing this, because this e-mail was deliberately not sent to users who had set their account to German; this kind of thing is illegal in Germany. If you had set your account to English, you still received the mail, even if you were in Germany. What followed was a dishonest non-apology, while the developer of the game they were promoting was utterly befuddled why gog had done this to their title.
My hypothesis is that Lemmy is very pro-Linux, and Steam has made gaming easier on Linux while also bringing Linux to more mainstream eyes.
As well, the younger crowd on Lemmy are probably on the younger side that grew up with Steam being basically infinite games available at low prices without having to resort to piracy, rather than the older crowd which first experienced Steam as software overhead needed to run a game that was already paid for.
So far I haven’t tried Linux yet. But the way its been going with Windows them even wanting to make it some sort of SaaS OS (?) I guess? Then i’m willing to take the plunge. Kinda wondering if its worth it, in example regular games like GTA, L.A. Noire, all that stuff will that still work under Linux? Sorry if thats a dumb question, its just I know next to nothing about Linux other than that its an other OS.
Being able to actually leave behind big tech with Microsoft being one of the biggest ones with all the changes going on when it comes to things like privacy and getting your information sold is pretty huge for some people.
People have been tired of Microsoft since Windows 10 when even a clean install would have ads, and it went from a basic OS to one trying to get you to log into an account to funnel data from you.
At this point is kind of less about the games, but improvements to Linux and the attempt to make it more accessible for the average user who isn’t tech savvy that has people seeing Valve positively.
You need a compatibility layer to run windows games on linux. Wine is this for most people, proton is built on wine.
If it’s installed via steam it will use proton by default. If you install it elsewhere you will need to set it up yourself, however interfaces like lutris have install scripts for many non-steam pieces of software and you can always study one if you need to write your own/manually set up a wine root (pretend C drive with the game an appropriate compatibility stuff).
You can check the state of games running on wine/proton here: https://www.protondb.com/
Thank you thats very helpful. I just wish I had a machine to test Linux on some time. I’ll figure it out though, but thank you. Let me put it this way: I’m Linux-curious now.
You can dual-boot although windows can be persnickety about sharing the boot partition. Guides are around, e.g. https://docs.bazzite.gg/General/Installation_Guide/dual_boot_setup_guide/
Linux installations are very light and don’t need much space (games do but you can read the windows partition from linux and just run a compatibility tool through steam if you have steam games)
Bazzite is a bad OS for general computing (advanced concepts required to move away from stock config) but good for “it just works” gaming. Fedora is a good general OS and for playing games although some software will need installing.
What would work for what I’m doing? I like gaming pirated games, I’ll personally never use steam (no offense) and I do a lot of artsy stuff and coding, specially these days with AI.
Don’t do any nieche distros.
Use one of the top ones by user amount, that way it’s less hassle (lots of users prove that stuff works well) and easier to get help (cause larger community).
For gaming a “rolling” distro is recommended to get the most up to date software and bugfixes.
My recommendation is (in order, best to good) cachy, fedora kde or bazzite.
Do not use “stable” distros for gaming like debian or ubuntu or mint. Those do a major release once a year and you will sit on bugs ir compatability issues that are already fixed on other distros. Stable means they don’t update often.
So basically I gotta sorta look at it like how Android OS’s often are, check for the best one before I flash it? (In this case install it)
All linux distros are the same OS but with a different community managing packaging. So what software is available to be installed/ or updated automatically; how and how frequently things are update, e.g. bleeding edge or only stable versions, whether the kernel (the os) is continually updated or has discrete versions; the software and configuration shipped with the installation software and; what software is used to manage the system.
It’s not a very significant choice, and if you keep user and system stuff on different partitions you can change distributions at will.
I use arch and have for a very long time. I think arch is an excellent choice if and only if you are interested in maintaining and understanding a linux system. If you just want to click buttons and have it all work, and maybe put up with some stuff that’s configured not exactly how you would like then fedora is a rolling release distribution that has many packages available kept up to date.
You will have to spend a bit of time reading documentation, and learning basic self help like looking up how to use tools via the “man toolname” command.
You’ll probably manage most of your pirated games via a piece of software called lutris, and will want to use helpful tools like proton-up to install compatibility layers.
Repack installs are sometimes hard to run properly but everything else is really straight forward. Just take the time to understand how wine/proton works so you’re not copy pasting blindly and getting frustrated.
Thank you. I think I’ll try some prolonged testing first just to use it for a while and if i’m comfortable enough with it hop on over to Linux.
This is a very good answer.
My love for it is absolutely based on the Linux thing. I used widows and Xbox/Xbox app for years as well as some games outside the eco system. Windows pissed me off one too many times and I finally switched full time to Linux. The reason, steam made me able to play my games. It’s why I had never left before.
So yeah, I think that’s a valid point.
Most folks have already hit the highlights like Linux support, customer service, pricing, etc. another I haven’t seen is the toolkit for devs and server hosts. I host a ton of game servers, and for most steam games it really is a trivial cookie cutter application of steamcmd to get a Linux dedicated server up and going. And because the devs built for the platform, the admin features all often use simple steam IDs for game permissions, making it easy to manage that functionality as well with a group of friends.
Basically, a ton of things just work consistently. Not to mention the pricing and early access fosters a lot of creativity. And my barotrauma, enshrouded, ut2004, TTT, prop hunt, vrising, etc servers are all basically an identical launch config with a slightly different appid and it all just works.
You don’t get that from the pirated versions or from gog generally.
Piracy tends to be a solution to customer service problems. For all the issues with steam, and there are many. For the average customer the service is generally great.
Then there’s the fact of their prolific support of open source projects. Some great like KDE, proton, fex and arch. Some questionable like forking waydroid for lepton and not working with the original devs. And pushing open platforms etc with their own products.
Then there’s the largely flat corporate structure which also appeals to many on the left. As something to promote for others to emulate. Which yeah if we’re going to have corporations would be better than the extremely vertical financial vehicles of the bourgeoisie.
But there are lots of good criticisms of them too. Like enabling gambling via loot boxes etc in CsGo and TF2 etc.
In my opinion, from a leftist perspective, the amount of yachts gaben owns kind of overshadows the flat corporate structure
Yeah see, theres a ton of stuff like that, that I don’t know. So its good that I asked here. I’m basically a fossile. (52) There was no steam on the Atari 2600 or Commodore 64.
You’re in good company here 50. I used to be much more into games 25 years ago. I haven’t really launched a game on Steam in months at this point myself. Between giveaways on Epic free shit on Twitch and Amazon. And the heroic launcher. Honestly I’ve got more stuff than I’ll ever hope to play. And not enough time or interest to invest a lot or get deep into a current Triple A game. I still have all my old physical media of course. And without physical media Etc piracy is important for preservation if nothing else. On a day-to-day usage case. These services do everything that most people need outside of preservation.
Kinda wondering if people here would be interested in my “Simpulator” game I made about 4 years ago. Its a sorta sandbox type game where you gotta work odd jobs to simp a camgirl its a whole thing. I’ve been thinking of posting it here but I’m new to the Fediverse so I’m trying to learn the ropes
I think people tend to be naive about Steam.
I mean, I DO think that Steam is miles better than Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo/Epic and I would say they’re probably one of the biggest responsibles to make Linux that much more popular (both for consumer and for devs) in the latest years.
But I don’t know what’s gonna happen to Steam after Gabe Newell leaves. I think there’s a huge risk for a dramatic shift in Valve / Steam monetization and culture. Things are fine now, but that’s still a corporation, and shareholders will want to get the last drop out of it just as these shitheads do to everything else.
I’ve heard rumors that Gabe’s son is being prepared to take over when Gabe is no longer in the picture. With any luck, Gabe will have imprinted him with the same ideals that made Steam what it is.
Personally i think people are throwing away money and freedom for convenience. but thats just my opinion so please don’t shoot me. I’ve never used any of those services, never used any streaming service either, i never game online (always offline against the cpu) and i don’t use music streaming services either. but that isn’t to say i’m trying to tell anyone here to stop using steam (although i did make a remark like that once), use whatever you like, its just me personally i never used it and never will. and i’m pretty surprised to see any steam users in a piracy lemmy, thats all. i wasn’t expecting that.
To be fair, isn’t convenience the point of money?
Yes, I could spend time to pirate a game and make it work. Or I can pay 20$ and have it working, while encouraging an indie dev.
Steam+Linux works better than pirated games + Linux, and I would much rather spend a bit of money on games than have to use the dumpster fire that is windows.
There are a lot of Valve stans on Fediverse. I think here it’s mainly because Valve boosted Linux so there’s stronger emotional attachment than your average Valve reddit stan using Windows who are more focused on Valve’s pathetic PC gaming client competition like Epic, Ubi, EA, etc.
I appreciate:
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The gaming compatibility boost enabling me to not have to use Windows hopefully ever again and compared to their competition when it comes to store design, modding, and community features it’s not even close.
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I like their hardware even though I wish they’d compete with consoles and subsidise asking prices and be far more friendly to international customers. Since Microsoft’s Xbox is dead, Sony is getting too comfortable. I own a Steam Deck which sees regular use during idle time at work, and I run two gaming desktop computers on Linux because of Proton.
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Valve being privately owned has been helpful for long term stability so far.
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Since there’s rarely physical game releases on PC it’s nice there’s so many regular sales and demo events. 3rd party keys still being allowed is also nice, I do routinely find games cheaper in CAD on legit sites like greenmangaming or instantgaming etc. Regional pricing headaches idk.
I don’t get attached to brands though like some people do going out of their way to white knight for Valve-kun in this case. This meme: https://quokk.au/static/media/posts/gU/wJ/gUwJWXxHFUmyAHH.gif
I have dislikes. Some of them longstanding:
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Notifications are still broken on Linux, rarely appearing at the correct x/y coordinates either partially off screen or no where near the bottom right. Idk why, X11 legacy debt?
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In-game overlay DPI is a crap shoot on a 4K TV. If it even opens at all on Linux. Usually fine, much less usually fine than on Windows still.
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The Steam Community and Profiles feel stuck in 2008 and have barely improved beyond animated themes/backgrounds. Images and screenshots in general are sluggish to load. Sometimes embedded chromium just randomly dies and doesn’t respond to any input until you manually refresh a page. That happened on Windows too, it’s annoying.
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Videos still lag for me on within Linux Steam client with AMD GPU. Nvidia is fine I have two desktops like I said, the AMD one is living room and both run CachyOS. Acceleration enabled/disabled doesn’t help with dropped frames confusingly.
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The item gambling and trading features are a big blight upon Gabe’s reputation IMO especially due to enabling children to gamble on jpegs.
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Steam didn’t used to force us to update a game before launching. I know how to manually edit manifests but this is lame and I’ll hold this anti user change against Valve for as long as it’s a thing. I like modding games, annoying headache.
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Why is Tuesday maintenance downtime still a thing?
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Workshop is half baked and I usually avoid using it unless a game actually incorporates it well like Killing Floor 2 did or Golf It! Mainly because updates didn’t usually break old user made content. Shitty to navigate, never cleaned up so it’s full of broken mods, and has a frankly quite shit search engine. One benefit of Valve’s total lack of attention is copyright infringing mods often stay up!
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The Store itself is okay but Search still lacks of a lot of sorting options including in the Wishlist.
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Valve is American, so that’s a negative point because the USA is in decline and Steam can be more easily censored by nutjobs in powerful positions. I try to buy from GOG first these days because of that.
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Lack of Discussion moderation. Full of Nazis and 4channers. Valve doesn’t lift a finger unless it’s a horny anime game. Praise be Visa. Holy art thou Mastercard. Bend thy ass over.
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Discussions get deleted after a certain amount of time. Big loss was shutting down the old proper bulletin board forums instead of updating them and incorporating them into Steam Client. Discussions are a shitty replacement even if they were properly moderated.
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Steam Deck compatibility tiers and notes on Store pages are half assed. Maybe not as useless as a Nintendo Seal Quality but in the same ball park.
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You already answered yourself. Valve provides a very good service and are very pro-consumer when compared to most of their competition. Even though at first Steam had way more cons than pros (without a good internet connection at the time it was mostly an obstacle to play Half Life) it grew to be a mostly positive thing soon and was a lifesaver when Microsoft was pushing for online subscriptions on GFWL.
You might find some pushback if what you’re actually doing is promoting a shitty company like Epic Games with their typical nonsense. If you really want DRM free games buy them from GOG/Itchio/dev’s site or patch the game yourself and simply share your happiness with others.
BTW, among other things, Steam Broadcasting is shamelessly broken since they updated the chat side of their client and they’re apparently not doing anything about it. Praise and criticism where it’s due, they can and should do better.
Thats what I don’t understand this very board is piracy, and no I’m not trying to shill anything. I don’t use any service, let alone DRM service. I’m a pirate, i leech shit and the cracks have steam emulators. I have never ever even ran steam, or any other such service.
I don’t think it’s incompatible. Piracy, or preservation and generosity as I’d prefer to call it, promotes game sales most of the time. If developers, publishers and storefronts make games accessible, safe to use and easily recoverable as is the case with GOG there’s little reason not to buy them as long as you’ve got the means. If they don’t and you got the know-how, you might feel it’s your duty to fix those games and help others enjoy them as much as you did, and I find that to be much more an act of love than an act of rebellion.
Well thats good, I’m not against that.
Steam is kind of the last vestige of the old capitalist propaganda. Like bell labs.
They’re the best case of the other side, and it feels weird attacking them, even when they fucking suck. Which they regularly do. They’re the bad guys,even if they’re the least bad guys.
