Dandelions are now basically considered native around most of the globe. There is compelling evidence both ethnobotany and genetic that dandelion are native to both Eurasia and North America.
The gist from what I have read (mostly from Native American herbalists) is that there is a oral cultural tradition for using dandelion for both food and medicine in North America. These oral traditions have various uses for the plant that likely predate European settlement. The basic concept is that Europeans never considered that a plant that they had in Europe could appear in North America unless they brought it. It was never considered to be native in both places even though the people who used in North America have a long tradition of use back by an oral tradition. However, since this was an oral tradition no one thought to consider it valid since it wasn’t written down. Since this has been suggested there is some genetic studies that back up that concept.
Interesting but it’s important to remember that Europeans and their plants have been in the Americas for over 500 years now, which is plenty of time for oral traditions to develop. I’m not saying it’s untrue but I’d be curious to see what the genetic evidence says, since that would be a verifiable way to confirm. But in my experience dandelions grow almost exclusively in human developments, so it would be pretty surprising if they were native here.
You think that human developments didn’t occur in the Americas before European came in?
Dandelions are a very human centric plant which makes sense that they traveled with humans as they traveled around the globe. This travel could be accidental or brought on purpose like many other different plants.
No, they are saying that it would be strange for them to be native here, like how apples are not native here.
They are saying that they would be interested to see the archeological evidence that backs up the oral tradition, because oral tradition is a great way to start your research, but is insufficient as evidence for a scientific claim. Just like how (since we’re talking about European arrivals in the americas) I can say that there’s oral tradition that St. Brendan landed in america in the 6th century. However, since there’s fuck all to support it, that’s not a very convincing claim, but it sure would be interesting if someone discovered archeological evidence for it. The Icelanders claimed to have landed in america for hundreds of years with oral tradition, and few believed them because there was fuck all to support the claim. Then, all of a sudden, they find remnants of viking settlements in Canada, and now its very interesting.
You specifically cited DNA evidence. Then, when someone asked about it, you immediately accused them of European exceptionalism in a ridiculous strawman. So, either your claim can be very interesting, since it’s backed by archeological evidence, or I can treat it with the same amount of credibility as St. Brendan over there in his leather raft.
And to expand on what the other commenter said, considering the logical side of it, those seeds seem very optimized to ride air currents around the entire hemisphere, especially when there’s a storm that can get them very high up.
Exactly. They can move very far on wind currents as well as the fact they are useful plants for people. It would be very easy to carry some seeds or an entire plant with you when you move somewhere new. As well as the fact they are small enough to get caught on pant legs, shoes, clothes etc. to hitch a ride
Dandelions are now basically considered native around most of the globe. There is compelling evidence both ethnobotany and genetic that dandelion are native to both Eurasia and North America.
Wait, what? Expand on this.
The gist from what I have read (mostly from Native American herbalists) is that there is a oral cultural tradition for using dandelion for both food and medicine in North America. These oral traditions have various uses for the plant that likely predate European settlement. The basic concept is that Europeans never considered that a plant that they had in Europe could appear in North America unless they brought it. It was never considered to be native in both places even though the people who used in North America have a long tradition of use back by an oral tradition. However, since this was an oral tradition no one thought to consider it valid since it wasn’t written down. Since this has been suggested there is some genetic studies that back up that concept.
I found most of this information on the Dandelion section in Plants Have So Much to Give Us, All We Have to Do Is Ask: Anishinaabe Botanical Teachings. They have a good description and I have seen it mentioned now in a few other books.
Interesting but it’s important to remember that Europeans and their plants have been in the Americas for over 500 years now, which is plenty of time for oral traditions to develop. I’m not saying it’s untrue but I’d be curious to see what the genetic evidence says, since that would be a verifiable way to confirm. But in my experience dandelions grow almost exclusively in human developments, so it would be pretty surprising if they were native here.
You think that human developments didn’t occur in the Americas before European came in?
Dandelions are a very human centric plant which makes sense that they traveled with humans as they traveled around the globe. This travel could be accidental or brought on purpose like many other different plants.
No, they are saying that it would be strange for them to be native here, like how apples are not native here.
They are saying that they would be interested to see the archeological evidence that backs up the oral tradition, because oral tradition is a great way to start your research, but is insufficient as evidence for a scientific claim. Just like how (since we’re talking about European arrivals in the americas) I can say that there’s oral tradition that St. Brendan landed in america in the 6th century. However, since there’s fuck all to support it, that’s not a very convincing claim, but it sure would be interesting if someone discovered archeological evidence for it. The Icelanders claimed to have landed in america for hundreds of years with oral tradition, and few believed them because there was fuck all to support the claim. Then, all of a sudden, they find remnants of viking settlements in Canada, and now its very interesting.
You specifically cited DNA evidence. Then, when someone asked about it, you immediately accused them of European exceptionalism in a ridiculous strawman. So, either your claim can be very interesting, since it’s backed by archeological evidence, or I can treat it with the same amount of credibility as St. Brendan over there in his leather raft.
And to expand on what the other commenter said, considering the logical side of it, those seeds seem very optimized to ride air currents around the entire hemisphere, especially when there’s a storm that can get them very high up.
Exactly. They can move very far on wind currents as well as the fact they are useful plants for people. It would be very easy to carry some seeds or an entire plant with you when you move somewhere new. As well as the fact they are small enough to get caught on pant legs, shoes, clothes etc. to hitch a ride