(Sorry if this is too off-topic:) ISPs seem designed to funnel people to capitalist cloud services, or at least I feel like that. And it endlessly frustrates me.
The reason is even though IPv6 addresses are widely available (unlike IPv4), most ISPs won’t allow consumers to request a static rather than a dynamic IPv6 prefix along with a couple of IPv6 reverse DNS entries.
Instead, this functionality is gatekept behind expensive premium or even business contracts, in many cases even requiring legal paperwork proving you have a registered business, so that the common user is completely unable to self-host e.g. a fully functional IPv6-only mail server with reverse DNS, even if they wanted to.
The common workaround is to suck up to the cloud, and rent a VPS, or some other foreign controlled machine that can be easily intercepted and messed with, and where the service can be surveilled better by big money.
I’m posting this since I hope more people will realize that this is going on, and both complain to their ISPs, but most notably to regulatory bodies and to generally spread the word. If we want true digital autonomy to be more common, I feel like this needs to be fixed for consumer landline contracts.
Or did I miss something that makes this make sense outside of a big money capitalist angle?
Plenty of people used Skype and Vonage. Both were subverted because they have to assume NAT is there.
But they do work better without NAT. That’s somewhat separate from static addresses.
My old roommate and I had tons of problems back in the day when we tried to host an Internet game of C&C: Generals behind the same NAT. I couldn’t connect to him. He couldn’t connect to me. We could connect to each other but nobody outside could. It’s a real problem that’s only been “solved” because a lot of games have moved to publisher-hosted servers. Which has its own issues with longevity.
Fyi, Skype was officially killed by Microsoft on May 5th, earlier this month.
As far as I’m aware Skype does not support actual VOIP calling anymore, at least according to Microsoft and the couple forums i just skimmed through. But it’s been probably 10+ years since I’ve actually used it or interacted with anyone who used it haha
And I was talking about static IPs, which are different. And at least in the US (in single family homes) its crazy unlikely that your router is behind any NAT. Unless you’re talking about CGNAT but anything short of a dedicated fiber run or dedicated wavelength (which are not options for residential people) you will be behind a CGNAT anyways. Even if you have a public IP.
And, anecdotally. In the last 5-8 years I don’t think I’ve had any issues with NAT when hosting games, it’s just firewall rules or my public IP changed. But ymmv on that one when playing 22 year old games haha
Skype won’t be supporting anything at all very soon.
What happened with Vonage is something that could happen with any kind of instant messaging, including things like Discord.
With everything directly addressable (not just static addresses, but directly addressable), an IM/VoIP service can simply connect to the recipient. No servers are necessary in between, only routers. That doesn’t work with NAT (CG or otherwise), so what you have to do is create a server that everyone connects into, and then that forwards messages to the endpoint. This is:
This is largely invisible to end users until free services get enshittified or something goes wrong.
Yes, it’s only tangentially related to static addresses, but it’s all part of the package. This is not the Internet we should have had.
Your router has NAT. That’s the problem. CGNAT is another problem. My C&C: Generals issues did not have CGNAT.
All routers have NAT, that’s sort of their entire role. Are you maybe talking about “double NATing” where you have your router behind the ISP modem/router?
No they fucking don’t, that’s not what routers do. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
And don’t fucking tell me NAT is for security, either.
That literally is though? NAT stands for Network Address Translation. It’ll take you public IP and translate those packets to use your internal one.
If your computer has an address that starts with
169,168, or10there is a NAT somewhere in your network.And it’s a “security thing” in the same way that asking someone’s name over the phone prevents impersonation haha
That is NAT, yes. But that is only one small function that a router can perform, and not all routers have NAT enabled. You only need NAT if your ISP only allows you to use a single IP address.
That’s not actually true. I can create such a network without connecting it to the internet, no NAT. I can create a second network, again, no NAT. I can then use a gateway router that allows any node on the first network to reach any node on the second. That router is still not doing any NAT. It’s just passing traffic between two networks.
Yeah you’re right, I was simplifying to the point where I was a little mistaken. I was assuming y5ou’re network was connected to the Internet and was just a standard residential setup, but this is a much better explanation.
The distinction is important because we are discussing IPv6. A “standard residential setup” with IPv6 would provide the user with an entire subnet rather than a single IP address. We still need a router to pass traffic from the ISP’s network to our own network, but we no longer need NAT.
Not really.
And even as a network amateur I know that its
10.0.0.0/8
172.16.0.0/12
192.168.0.0/16
and 169.254.0.0/16 is not even routable so no dice with NAT.
So someone can connect to you just with with a public IPv4 starting with 192.x.x.x
Have you ever chained three Cisco 2600 routers together and then successfully ping’d clients on each end? Do you know what BGP is? OSPF? Do you know the difference between routing and routed protocols?
I know you don’t, because people who do don’t make the claims you’re making.
That’s not the point of a router. It is one feature that most of not all now have, but it’s not their primary purpose.