The big issue is that we don’t see men being pedantic towards other men at nearly the same rate. Absolutely it happens, but there is definitely a problem with men not respecting women specifically.
Part of it, I think, comes from social conditioning and it’s more of a reaction than anything on purpose when it comes to a large subset of the people doing it. Even still, it’s important to gender it at least sometimes to highlight why we might be doing it and to give us the correct thing to reflect on. I’ve done it before where I could say it to a man but I realized that I what I was saying or doing was fueled, at least in part, by some internalized misogyny. Knowing that has helped me get to it before I do something stupid.
Okay, but do you not realize how big a problem being discharitable to others is?
The fucking fabric of society is falling apart. I’m sorry women get underestimated, like I do. It’s very annoying, believe me, I deal with it constantly
But you suck it up, listen, and make them feel foolish with your response.
The alternative is a further breakdown of communication. You can’t be primed to see others as bad actors, it’s so incredibly damaging
No one is the villain in their own story. No one knows how smart they are, only if others are higher or lower.
Listening to people tell you things you already know is inevitable. It’s social hygiene. It sucks, but it’s the social contract
That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand the difference. Not knowing something is fine, but fighting it like this is weird. You’re not helping anything with this comment and instead are basically trying to say that it’s not a problem enough to even talk about or understand. If you cannot handle this information that’s something to look inwardly at, not lash out at me for simply explaining what it is.
Women feel talked down because they are women and they can see the exact same men treating other men differently. I regularly see this happen to them, too. Sometimes it’s a small accident and sometimes it’s very much on purpose and all of it is important to understand. I don’t know why you want to pretend like it doesn’t happen but it does either way.
But the cure is worse than the poison. The term primes people to see it where it isn’t there, and that’s extraordinarily toxic.
Call them a misogynist and be done with it. I know it when I see it. You know it when you see it.
It’s like man spreading. It’s ok to be comfortable. It’s not ok to push into other people’s personal space. If you’re alone on a bench, who gives a fuck. If you want to signal “I’d prefer no one sit next to me”, that’s fine until someone sits next to you. Then you’re an asshole or you’re not, we don’t need extra words to gender niche behaviors
Words are perception. Labeling a thing primes you to see it. These overly specific, gender based labels are harmful
It literally makes the world worse for everyone involved to create subcategories of asshole behavior based on gender dynamics
The cure is not worse than the poison. And if you admit that it happens, and you also say we should call them misogynist if they’re doing it, then calling someone out for “mansplaining” is exactly that except for some reason you don’t like it.
It’s giving “I’m fine with the protests I just don’t think they should block traffic or otherwise get in my way.”
Yeah well disputing traffic does something. It makes people feel the breakdown of society in a visceral way
The concept of mansplaining is discharitable. It is bad to prime people to spot it, because false positives are extremely damaging to interpersonal relations.
Don’t give it a name, just call it what it is: talking to a sexist asshole. There’s no confusion there… It doesn’t matter if they’re being patronizing or making rude comments, the Venn diagram is a circle.
You’re taking to a bigot, or you’re not. And when you’re not, you’re probably talking to someone neurodivergent, who is genuinely trying to communicate in good faith
If you’ve already agreed that the person is sexist then people will just say that anyone doing it is sexist and you’ll complain that people are primed to say it and “false positives…” and all that.
It sounds like you’ve felt personally hurt by this in the past less than there’s a good argument here.
Mansplaining is a type of dickishness. It is not a wholesale replacement, just a version thereof. You are outright refusing to allow for the refinement of an idea and I do not know why aside from somehow this specific level of detail is the line which you have decided is “dangerous”. Hell, you don’t even seem to be against the idea that there is a specifically male-on-female sexist dickishness but rather just hate that there is a term for it that people can use to more effectively communicate the idea.
You don’t have a stance I could even make a strawman up for, you just hate that something has a name.
Treating women like they are soft little creatures is insanely sexist. Treat them as equals and they will treat you the same. I don’t understand why it’s so hard for other men to understand this.
Edit: i guess my assumption that men shouldn’t be a huge bag of dicks is wrong. No one should ever say something to a male that they shouldn’t say to a female. We shouldn’t need to change our behavior based on the gender of who we are talking to unless we as men fuckin suck.
I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that men need to treat women “equally”, it’s that the reason mansplaining happens is different to the reason that generic pedantry happens. They can happen at the same time, but the general idea is that mansplaining is pedantry with a boost of sexism, intentional or otherwise, not simply being pedantic to a woman. The difference is subtle, and luckily the solution of just not not being an ass to people solves both issues quite well but it’s still good to try identify how much of one or the other is present when you slip up so you can address the correct problem.
Put it another way, you also shouldn’t be treating an old person like a baby when helping them with their phone, or a child like they’re stupid and couldn’t possibly know things a grown-up doesn’t. All of these are genderless examples of how disrespect can come from several angles at once and there is also the gendered scenario we call “mansplaining”.
(New person here)
The big issue is that we don’t see men being pedantic towards other men at nearly the same rate. Absolutely it happens, but there is definitely a problem with men not respecting women specifically.
Part of it, I think, comes from social conditioning and it’s more of a reaction than anything on purpose when it comes to a large subset of the people doing it. Even still, it’s important to gender it at least sometimes to highlight why we might be doing it and to give us the correct thing to reflect on. I’ve done it before where I could say it to a man but I realized that I what I was saying or doing was fueled, at least in part, by some internalized misogyny. Knowing that has helped me get to it before I do something stupid.
Okay, but do you not realize how big a problem being discharitable to others is?
The fucking fabric of society is falling apart. I’m sorry women get underestimated, like I do. It’s very annoying, believe me, I deal with it constantly
But you suck it up, listen, and make them feel foolish with your response.
The alternative is a further breakdown of communication. You can’t be primed to see others as bad actors, it’s so incredibly damaging
No one is the villain in their own story. No one knows how smart they are, only if others are higher or lower.
Listening to people tell you things you already know is inevitable. It’s social hygiene. It sucks, but it’s the social contract
That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand the difference. Not knowing something is fine, but fighting it like this is weird. You’re not helping anything with this comment and instead are basically trying to say that it’s not a problem enough to even talk about or understand. If you cannot handle this information that’s something to look inwardly at, not lash out at me for simply explaining what it is.
Women feel talked down because they are women and they can see the exact same men treating other men differently. I regularly see this happen to them, too. Sometimes it’s a small accident and sometimes it’s very much on purpose and all of it is important to understand. I don’t know why you want to pretend like it doesn’t happen but it does either way.
It happens, I’m not denying that.
But the cure is worse than the poison. The term primes people to see it where it isn’t there, and that’s extraordinarily toxic.
Call them a misogynist and be done with it. I know it when I see it. You know it when you see it.
It’s like man spreading. It’s ok to be comfortable. It’s not ok to push into other people’s personal space. If you’re alone on a bench, who gives a fuck. If you want to signal “I’d prefer no one sit next to me”, that’s fine until someone sits next to you. Then you’re an asshole or you’re not, we don’t need extra words to gender niche behaviors
Words are perception. Labeling a thing primes you to see it. These overly specific, gender based labels are harmful
It literally makes the world worse for everyone involved to create subcategories of asshole behavior based on gender dynamics
The cure is not worse than the poison. And if you admit that it happens, and you also say we should call them misogynist if they’re doing it, then calling someone out for “mansplaining” is exactly that except for some reason you don’t like it.
It’s giving “I’m fine with the protests I just don’t think they should block traffic or otherwise get in my way.”
Yeah well disputing traffic does something. It makes people feel the breakdown of society in a visceral way
The concept of mansplaining is discharitable. It is bad to prime people to spot it, because false positives are extremely damaging to interpersonal relations.
Don’t give it a name, just call it what it is: talking to a sexist asshole. There’s no confusion there… It doesn’t matter if they’re being patronizing or making rude comments, the Venn diagram is a circle.
You’re taking to a bigot, or you’re not. And when you’re not, you’re probably talking to someone neurodivergent, who is genuinely trying to communicate in good faith
If you’ve already agreed that the person is sexist then people will just say that anyone doing it is sexist and you’ll complain that people are primed to say it and “false positives…” and all that.
It sounds like you’ve felt personally hurt by this in the past less than there’s a good argument here.
And you’re projecting even more things on me now. You’re not speaking to me as an equal. You’re not trying to come to common understanding.
You’re just trying to fight the strawman you carried into this conversation
Which is my whole point. What you’re doing, right now, is what I think this word leads to.
Mansplaining is a type of dickishness. It is not a wholesale replacement, just a version thereof. You are outright refusing to allow for the refinement of an idea and I do not know why aside from somehow this specific level of detail is the line which you have decided is “dangerous”. Hell, you don’t even seem to be against the idea that there is a specifically male-on-female sexist dickishness but rather just hate that there is a term for it that people can use to more effectively communicate the idea.
You don’t have a stance I could even make a strawman up for, you just hate that something has a name.
Men are the most pedantic assholes to other men.
Treating women like they are soft little creatures is insanely sexist. Treat them as equals and they will treat you the same. I don’t understand why it’s so hard for other men to understand this.
Edit: i guess my assumption that men shouldn’t be a huge bag of dicks is wrong. No one should ever say something to a male that they shouldn’t say to a female. We shouldn’t need to change our behavior based on the gender of who we are talking to unless we as men fuckin suck.
I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that men need to treat women “equally”, it’s that the reason mansplaining happens is different to the reason that generic pedantry happens. They can happen at the same time, but the general idea is that mansplaining is pedantry with a boost of sexism, intentional or otherwise, not simply being pedantic to a woman. The difference is subtle, and luckily the solution of just not not being an ass to people solves both issues quite well but it’s still good to try identify how much of one or the other is present when you slip up so you can address the correct problem.
Put it another way, you also shouldn’t be treating an old person like a baby when helping them with their phone, or a child like they’re stupid and couldn’t possibly know things a grown-up doesn’t. All of these are genderless examples of how disrespect can come from several angles at once and there is also the gendered scenario we call “mansplaining”.