Tell me you haven’t used a Linux desktop recently without telling me.
“I remember”. Using that phrase tells me it wasn’t recently enough. And “using it inside windows” tells me you tried to fit a round peg into a square hole or that you don’t know what you are talking about.
You may be a MAC fan and that’s OK if that works for you, but I haven’t needed to use anything else but Linux since 2004 (initially there were always pickups, though) and I’ve been runing it without issues since probably 2010.
Tell me you don’t know that much about computers without telling me. MAC stands for Media Access Control, it’s a networking term, every device has a MAC address.
Mac is a computer made by Apple. It doesn’t stand for anything. It’s short for Macintosh. But there hasn’t been an “Apple Macintosh” in a long time. They’ve just been Macs. Oh, and macOS is certified UNIX, whatever that means, so stuff your elitism. We’re both using *nix. Mine just works without issues.
But in the interests of transparency, no, I haven’t actually tried to use Linux, like gave it a shot as a daily driver, in like 15-20 years. I’ve dabbled off and on but I think we can agree dicking around in a VM doesn’t count. More recently than that, I put Ubuntu on my mother-in-law’s computer and supported it for about a year, but then she went back to Windows — that was like a decade ago. I have used Linux off and on since the 90s. But what really stopped me — I got married. Settled down. Now, my wife doesn’t give a shit what the thing runs as long as Firefox works, but any weirdness with the OS, I gotta deal with it. That kept me on Windows, until I switched. If I were still on a regular PC, given all Microsoft’s bullshit, I’d probably be on Linux, most likely Ubuntu. But I had a hardware failure and I always wanted to try Mac, so I did.
Oh — just saw, “using it inside Windows”. Weird that you don’t know what that means since you’ve been using it for so long, but maybe that’s the reason. So, I’m not sure if they still do, but when I did this, Ubuntu had a thing, you’d download the distro, burn it to DVD, and run it, and it would run inside Windows as an app (in a VM, I assume). You then had the option to install it, because if you didn’t, nothing would survive a reboot. (Why it didn’t just save a config file to disk, I don’t know. Maybe that was an option.) So you install it, and while you use it, it partitions the drive and installs itself, in the background, then it copies its configuration/whatever you’ve downloaded to the install. Then it reboots into that, and then you’re dual booting. You can also delete the Windows partition. Not sure what you mean about a round peg and a square hole. Are you saying a computer built using off-the-shelf parts should only be used for Windows, and specific hardware needs to be used for Linux? Because I’ve literally never heard that before and you really sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about by saying that. So maybe clarify?
They said that Linux is really good, and they are not wrong that for the regular person, who struggles with even the most basic IT shit, there still isn’t a full “finished” option for them, really. Power users and more savvy people grow the technology but it’s the masses who fund it and the masses need something reliable or at least a close enough friend who can help them.
they are not wrong that for the regular person, who struggles with even the most basic IT shit, there still isn’t a full “finished” option for them,
My dead mother, who couldn’t run windows for more than 6 months without trashing the install used mint without issue for years before she died in like 22. If my tech illiterate mother can do it, just about anyone can.
The average user basically just needs a web browser and some office tools. If they can’t figure out how to use those in a different interface, they probably need to attend a ‘remedial computers 01’ course.
Facebook works just as well on Linus as windows. Most people are too scared to try, not unable to use it in my experience.
Did you set it up for her? A normal person is not going to grab a USB and get Linux going on their own computer. And then there are all the distros where even savvy people can’t agree on what’s best and will be like “oh Mint and Ubuntu are both good options” and even having to choose and commit would be a big deal for most people, especially if they don’t have anyone who can help them with it.
It’s not about actually using it so much as it is the barrier to entry. I know that we know it’s actually not that difficult or crazy, but the layman sees basically any computer stuff as magic.
Regular people get help with basic stuff in windows All the time. That’s why there is a Geek Squad in best buy. That’s probably the only thing missing for the non technical Linux users.
If people are paying someone to “install” their printer, why would it be different with Linux.
In fact, in Linux they’d need less tech support as many windows users calls are for slowness, virus and obsolescence.
Let’s not compare usability using different standards
People like closed and predictable environments. The step is not to tell them to “get over it” but to instead show them carefully why things are safe. Also to be able to hand them a machine and go “here, it has Ubuntu” because, even though we know it’s easy, asking someone to put it on their computer is not goingnto happen.
Part of why people use Windows, too, is for compatibility. Why would someone go through all that just to end up not being able to use what they know? I’m not even saying they shouldn’t, and may the alternatives are actually better, but now it’s getting weird. And even asking them to pick a distro I mean which one do we decide is “the distro for the public”?
Again, I’m not saying people in this computer age not knowing how basic computer stuff works is a good thing. It is the reality however, and while it needs to change I’m not sure how to go about it.
You just gave four options and an “etc.” and dude that’s not going to make anyone any more comfortable. If people don’t have friends who can help them, and a lot of people don’t, then how are they supposed to even know to ask for Linux, the set of OSs which have a reputation for being finnicky? They’re just supposed to grab a USB stick and learn what ISOs are, jump in the BIOS and mess with boot orders, and- do you not see the problem?
I agree that people should learn this shit. I’m not in IT but I deal with my computer myself, or a mechanic but I fix my own car, or a plumber but I have no problems dealing with certain issues here but a lot of people aren’t like that and are in fact actively discouraged from cracking into their electronics or their cars or their homes. It sucks, but you gotta deal with that before naming off distros when they don’t even know what a distro even is.
If people are paying someone to “install” their printer, why would it be different with Linux.
With printers spesifically I’d bet people don’t need to pay for support with Linux as much. Sure, there are models which just won’t work, but in general my experience is that printers are mostly plug’n’play with Linux.
A few months ago I did a helpdesk gig on one local small business. They consume a lot of paper due to requirements on their business and they have some fancy KonicaMinolta photocopier. They guys who installed the printer had struggled for hours to get that thing to work on their Win10 machines. I did what was requested and they asked if I could print out notes I wrote for them for reference but immediately started to wonder if that’s feasible as the printer was so difficult to install. It took less than a minute for my mint-laptop to locate the printer and start using it. No idea if the printer company techs were just incompetent or if the software for it is bad, but apparently I’m now some kind of tech-deity in their office…
Tell me you haven’t used a Linux desktop recently without telling me.
“I remember”. Using that phrase tells me it wasn’t recently enough. And “using it inside windows” tells me you tried to fit a round peg into a square hole or that you don’t know what you are talking about.
You may be a MAC fan and that’s OK if that works for you, but I haven’t needed to use anything else but Linux since 2004 (initially there were always pickups, though) and I’ve been runing it without issues since probably 2010.
Tell me you don’t know that much about computers without telling me. MAC stands for Media Access Control, it’s a networking term, every device has a MAC address.
Mac is a computer made by Apple. It doesn’t stand for anything. It’s short for Macintosh. But there hasn’t been an “Apple Macintosh” in a long time. They’ve just been Macs. Oh, and macOS is certified UNIX, whatever that means, so stuff your elitism. We’re both using *nix. Mine just works without issues.
But in the interests of transparency, no, I haven’t actually tried to use Linux, like gave it a shot as a daily driver, in like 15-20 years. I’ve dabbled off and on but I think we can agree dicking around in a VM doesn’t count. More recently than that, I put Ubuntu on my mother-in-law’s computer and supported it for about a year, but then she went back to Windows — that was like a decade ago. I have used Linux off and on since the 90s. But what really stopped me — I got married. Settled down. Now, my wife doesn’t give a shit what the thing runs as long as Firefox works, but any weirdness with the OS, I gotta deal with it. That kept me on Windows, until I switched. If I were still on a regular PC, given all Microsoft’s bullshit, I’d probably be on Linux, most likely Ubuntu. But I had a hardware failure and I always wanted to try Mac, so I did.
Oh — just saw, “using it inside Windows”. Weird that you don’t know what that means since you’ve been using it for so long, but maybe that’s the reason. So, I’m not sure if they still do, but when I did this, Ubuntu had a thing, you’d download the distro, burn it to DVD, and run it, and it would run inside Windows as an app (in a VM, I assume). You then had the option to install it, because if you didn’t, nothing would survive a reboot. (Why it didn’t just save a config file to disk, I don’t know. Maybe that was an option.) So you install it, and while you use it, it partitions the drive and installs itself, in the background, then it copies its configuration/whatever you’ve downloaded to the install. Then it reboots into that, and then you’re dual booting. You can also delete the Windows partition. Not sure what you mean about a round peg and a square hole. Are you saying a computer built using off-the-shelf parts should only be used for Windows, and specific hardware needs to be used for Linux? Because I’ve literally never heard that before and you really sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about by saying that. So maybe clarify?
They said that Linux is really good, and they are not wrong that for the regular person, who struggles with even the most basic IT shit, there still isn’t a full “finished” option for them, really. Power users and more savvy people grow the technology but it’s the masses who fund it and the masses need something reliable or at least a close enough friend who can help them.
My dead mother, who couldn’t run windows for more than 6 months without trashing the install used mint without issue for years before she died in like 22. If my tech illiterate mother can do it, just about anyone can.
The average user basically just needs a web browser and some office tools. If they can’t figure out how to use those in a different interface, they probably need to attend a ‘remedial computers 01’ course.
Facebook works just as well on Linus as windows. Most people are too scared to try, not unable to use it in my experience.
Did you set it up for her? A normal person is not going to grab a USB and get Linux going on their own computer. And then there are all the distros where even savvy people can’t agree on what’s best and will be like “oh Mint and Ubuntu are both good options” and even having to choose and commit would be a big deal for most people, especially if they don’t have anyone who can help them with it.
It’s not about actually using it so much as it is the barrier to entry. I know that we know it’s actually not that difficult or crazy, but the layman sees basically any computer stuff as magic.
Again. Have you used Fedora, Mint, Ubuntu?
Regular people get help with basic stuff in windows All the time. That’s why there is a Geek Squad in best buy. That’s probably the only thing missing for the non technical Linux users.
If people are paying someone to “install” their printer, why would it be different with Linux.
In fact, in Linux they’d need less tech support as many windows users calls are for slowness, virus and obsolescence.
Let’s not compare usability using different standards
People like closed and predictable environments. The step is not to tell them to “get over it” but to instead show them carefully why things are safe. Also to be able to hand them a machine and go “here, it has Ubuntu” because, even though we know it’s easy, asking someone to put it on their computer is not goingnto happen.
Part of why people use Windows, too, is for compatibility. Why would someone go through all that just to end up not being able to use what they know? I’m not even saying they shouldn’t, and may the alternatives are actually better, but now it’s getting weird. And even asking them to pick a distro I mean which one do we decide is “the distro for the public”?
Again, I’m not saying people in this computer age not knowing how basic computer stuff works is a good thing. It is the reality however, and while it needs to change I’m not sure how to go about it.
You start with any mainstream distro. Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, Mint and the like.
The differencea between them aren’t relevant to a new user.
You install whatever you are comfortable with to be able to help them.
You just gave four options and an “etc.” and dude that’s not going to make anyone any more comfortable. If people don’t have friends who can help them, and a lot of people don’t, then how are they supposed to even know to ask for Linux, the set of OSs which have a reputation for being finnicky? They’re just supposed to grab a USB stick and learn what ISOs are, jump in the BIOS and mess with boot orders, and- do you not see the problem?
I agree that people should learn this shit. I’m not in IT but I deal with my computer myself, or a mechanic but I fix my own car, or a plumber but I have no problems dealing with certain issues here but a lot of people aren’t like that and are in fact actively discouraged from cracking into their electronics or their cars or their homes. It sucks, but you gotta deal with that before naming off distros when they don’t even know what a distro even is.
I said “you” generic as a knowledgeable person.
The people you are talking about didn’t install windows either. I’m talking about comparing apples and apples.
There is no more difficulty installing or using windows or Linux, but in Linux there are less problems.
With printers spesifically I’d bet people don’t need to pay for support with Linux as much. Sure, there are models which just won’t work, but in general my experience is that printers are mostly plug’n’play with Linux.
A few months ago I did a helpdesk gig on one local small business. They consume a lot of paper due to requirements on their business and they have some fancy KonicaMinolta photocopier. They guys who installed the printer had struggled for hours to get that thing to work on their Win10 machines. I did what was requested and they asked if I could print out notes I wrote for them for reference but immediately started to wonder if that’s feasible as the printer was so difficult to install. It took less than a minute for my mint-laptop to locate the printer and start using it. No idea if the printer company techs were just incompetent or if the software for it is bad, but apparently I’m now some kind of tech-deity in their office…
I put that in quotes because geeksquad sometime gets called to literally just connect cables and show the client where the power button is.
And my point is not to blame the clients. My car mechanic may be laughing about me taking the car to do things I can do my self in 5 minutes.
The point is that windows isn’t easier. It just has more readily available support and people who start using windows are OK calling someone.
People starting with Linux think that if they find an obstacle, “that’s it, Linux bad”, instead of paying someone to solve it.