Yesterday I decided to create a second profile on my Pixel 5 with GrapheneOS. The idea was that I would only keep Google Play Services (GPS) and Google Play Store (GPS2) there together with WhatsApp (need it go my kids school) and bank apps, and therefore shut down second profile for most of the time. So, I deleted GPS and GPS2 on the main profile and since then, I have Signal Messaging complaining that it requires GPS. I know I ough to probably be complaining with Signal developers, but before I go down that route I just wanted to reassure myself that this is normal behaviour. Presumably, Signal is complaining that it requires GPS only because its the only way it can notify a user that an update is available? I’ve done some minimal tests and it seems to be working normally, despite GPS is not installed on the main profile. I guess I could move to SimpleX and ditch Signal but that would be tough given I spent years convincing people to move to Signal 🙂
No. Next question.
Just use Molly (the app)
Right up there with: “Does my pimp love me?”
Signal uses Play Services for its push notifications. It does have a fallback method which maintains a connection to their servers to get message notifications. It requires changing some battery optimisation settings which might have some minor battery impacts.
Personally I’m using Molly which implements UnifiedPush for Push Notifications without Molly/Signal needing to run in the background constantly. Also swaps a few other Google dependencies (like location pins) with open source alternatives.
Having the second profile with Google Services is a good idea though. That was what I used to do before I shed my last few Google dependencies.
But then UnifiedPush instead needs to constantly run in the background though? So where is the benefit over Signal’s fallback method for push notifications? Is it that UnifiedPush could be used for many other apps at the same time?
That’s pretty much exactly it. Not much benefit for only one application. But I have multiple apps that all recieves notifications via UnifiedPush. My UnifiedPush client (ntfy) stays running in the background, the rest of the apps can go to sleep and get woken up if something haopens.
There are a couple of dependencies that I will find hard to get rid of like bank authentication. Its getting really hard to find banks that will allow 2FA via methods that don’t require the app.
Personally I’m using Molly
Me too, but even with no limit to battery usage it still gets killed after a while in the background…
Me too. I am rolling like a fucking tire. I fucking love everything.
Is that with using UnifiedPush or the WebSocket notification method?
Seems to be websocket as it doesn’t require extra configuration.
No, Google Play Services in any form is spyware.
Replace signal with molly (a signal fork). It still works with signal perfectly, but does not complain about Google Play services.
Molly.im does not have a lot of documentation. Does it equally rely on a centralised server? If it does, then surely one of the downsides is that there probably isn’t a huge foundation behind it ensuring the bills are paid, etc. Or is it that Molly is piggy backing on Signal servers? And is the Signal Foundation happy to be have Molly users using its services? How long before Signal Foundation kicks Molly users off it servers?
Also I note u can download two different version: one with Google blobs and one without. What compromise do I have to make if I choose the Google version?
Molly uses Signals servers, meaning you can chat with people that use Signal. As far as I know Signal does allow for third party clients, so as long as their stance doesn’t change Molly should work. Differences between the versions can be found here
Its the first time i hear about Molly … Cant believe i didnt know about it
I run a Signal Bridge to a Matrix server, then Element with ntfy notifications. I think you can do the same with Molly and ntfy.
You need to reinstall Signal for it to fall back to its own push notification system. This is not about updates but checking for messages in the background. This doesn’t mean you cannot receive messages at all without it, just that you’d have to do so manually by opening the app every time.
It may have worked for a little while, but a reinstall is required for restoring full functionality
You can hide the Error notification type (at least in AOSP Android 15).
spent years convincing people to move to Signal
It’s not linear. The first time they probably thought “Oh… another chat app, such a big deal, so complex! I’ll never manage” but now that they did with Signal and realize it’s not that hard, having another will be much easier.
Now on the actual question, I do not know. What actual information does Google get from it and as importantly what can they infer from it? Might actually be good to ask Signal developers since it’s because of their choice.
Related discussions https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/14203 which suggests https://signal.org/android/apk/ might not need GPS and isn’t delivered via Play Store.
If you freeze them, yes. Can’t remove them forcefully tho, they bootloop.
Langis is Signal with the GPS requirement removed.
Pardon my french, but you’re screwed.
Signal is centralized, contains binary blobs from Google and requires Play Services. It’s just wrong on many levels.
Matrix is better but with it’s own controversies. I have accepted that XMPP could be a better choice than any other, provided people get the guidance needed to chose the right client for them.
Wrong. Signal does not require play services. You can build the apk yourself from the source code, or you can download the prebuilt apk directly from Signal here: https://signal.org/android/apk/
This apk is self-updating and does not require Google Play services to update nor message. If it detects Google Play Services (or OpenGApps/microG), Signal will register you as an Firebase Cloud Messaging user for push notifications. If you do not have those services installed it will use WebSocket connection to the Signal servers instead.
I tried it but ultimately went back to Signal via microG, as the push notifications are half the value of instant messaging - WebSocket was unreliable. I tested about 3 years ago though, so they may have improved their implementation.
So does that mean it will use blobs only if a person has Google Play? Honestly, I don’t really understand the definition of blobs. Tracker code?
In my (limited) understanding of it ‘blobs’ are encrypted blocks of data that are distributed with apps in their APK. The app code internally will then have references to the blobs to indicate start and end locations in the blobs and usually a function that reference serves.
That means less for closed source apps, as they could contain any obfuscated code already - but open source advocates are very skeptical of arbitrary blobs, as they can be used to distribute anything - trackers or malicious code for instance. Their primary function in the Google App store seems to be to distribute signing certificates, encrypted keys and checksums that Google uses to verify the build version and that app is from the Play Store (Google calls this ‘frosting’ the app, going with their Android dessert theme).
So I have not checked, but I imagine the Signal direct-download APK would not have blobs as it’s not been signed/‘frosted’ by Google.
See brief discussion below from IzzyOnDroid devs for additional terms if you’re curious to research further.
Signal is my only instant messenger and I can happily report no issues these days with notifications, that said, I never really noticed them previously and have been using for >3 years.
Occasionally we’ll use Signal whilst on a live call, someone will tell us they messaged on Signal and I’ll get the notification immediately - i.e. I knew when it was sent and received.
This is working smoothly on my grapheneos phone and the desktop client across Linux and Windows.
That’s great to hear, I might give it another try. Thanks
I think signal is very useful. Private messages are only useful when other people use it and it’s difficult really difficult to entice people to switch if it’s any less convenient than what they were already using.
With signal you can just tell your friend or relative that its like WhatsApp but better.
Signal does not necessarily use google play services. It only does so if available. Reinstall may be required.
No.
Explane more , I’ve got graphene just installed on my pixel 8 pro .
Never, but the stock Android which include the Google Play isn’t anyway private, irrelevant if you use the Google Play services or not.
