There’s no UK standard for three-phase and high amperage sockets or plugs. In fact, UK sockets don’t support 16A three-phase at all, so if you have higher power needs (for example for EV charging) you’re left with having to install a dedicated wall box that uses an entirely different connector than the 3-pin UK plug, BS 1363.
Given this incompatibility, how can you argue that UK sockets are better, for instance, than SN 441011?
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
I did notably just say that the plug is the best in the world for electrical safety. I’ve made no claims of it’s usefulness or convenience outside of that.
(( am also unaware of any country on the planet that uses the same plug/connector for general purpose household devices and 3 phase power. The number you provided, SN441011, also just leads to relatively generic household plug that doesn’t seem fit suited for multi phase use either, so not sure what you’re trying to say. I’ve also rarely seen places outside of industrial environments that have multiphase outlets, except in America, which has split phase power, and uses the voltage boost by going phase to phase instead of phase to ground. There’ll you’ll do often find 240V split phase outlets for high power appliances like shop heaters, electric clothes driers or EVSE, but those outlets also require unique receptacles and plugs))
E: I believe I misunderstood exactly what you meant. You’re complaining that UK electric code has nonstandard for a high power plug+socket combination. For one, that though has nothing at all to do with this plug. A lack of standard for a completely different plug has nothing to do with the quality of the plug at hand.
Also, there actually IS a standard, that is specifically adopted for EVSE in the UK. You can have a dedicated 400V three phase 32A circuit installed in your garage, and terminate in a red IEC 60309.
It’s not that the standard doesn’t exist, it’s just the UK has a very very heavy preference for simply hard wiring high power and multiphase appliances.
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
It’s a minor nuisance yeah sure, but it also has the nice advantage that there’s no need to fully mould plastic around it. UK plugs are pretty much universally openable, meaning you can repair them yourself if a fuse dies, or one of the wires comes lose. It’s also really easy, and literally all you need is a single screw driver, to swap a working plug over onto a cable who’s plug has broken.
But even so, it’s again not a safety issue so not exactly relevant to my poing.
By this logic, a potato is the best in terms of electrical safety. That’s of course tongue in cheek, but if we’re reducing plug capabilities in the interest of calling them safe, USB-A 1.0 is the “safest” because it only outputs 5V at 3A.
I’m sure I don’t need to point out how the plug is part of a broader electrical system and forms an integral part of it. Excusing the plug from an entire host of applications by stating that a different standard solves for that is the very point of my comment.
SN441011 is the Swiss system that through its 2-, 3- and 5-pin design supports single- and three-phase for up to 11 kW in domestic applications.
As an aide, regarding fuses in UK plugs: Putting the onus of electrical safety on the user for home repairs with a screwdriver is, in my opinion, inherently unsafe, especially when there’s no safe backup through a circuit breaker. Imagine an impatient user replaces a burnt fuse with a piece of aluminum foil.
By this logic, a potato is the best in terms of electrical safety. That’s of course tongue in cheek, but if we’re reducing plug capabilities in the interest of calling them safe, USB-A 1.0 is the “safest” because it only outputs 5V at 3A.
I’m concerned that you thought that was legitimately some kind of good point you made there. The fact that we’re talking about a household plug and socket is blindingly obvious from context.
SN441011 is the Swiss system that through its 2-, 3- and 5-pin design supports single- and three-phase for up to 11 kW in domestic applications.
I have literally never in my life thought for even a millisecond “hey wouldn’t be useful if I could plug my regular appliances into a high power outlet too ?”
How many multiphase and high power outlets do you people have that needing to be forward compatible with regular single phase household plugs is relevant ?
There’s like maybe 2 or 3 devices in a home that even need multiphase high power outlets, like ovens+ranges, electric driers or water heaters or EVSE. And none of those tend to move around much.
Also, again, as I literally stated in in comment of above, that is a matter of convenience
, not safety, so it’s an irrelevant point.
Putting the onus of electrical safety on the user for repairs with a screwdriver is, in my opinion, inherently unsafe, especially when there’s no safe backup through a circuit breaker. Imagine an impatient user replaces a burnt fuse with a piece of aluminum foil.
What if someone does that to a car fuse ? What if someone does it one of those old circuit fuses that you still get in old buildings without breakers ?
Or imagine an impatient home owner duck tapes their breaker/GFCI to “ON” because they can’t be arsed to find the fault that makes it trip every 20 seconds.
Idiots ignoring obvious safety instructions will make most ANY system unsafe. It’s not like replaying a fuse is a hard or dangerous process. Most plugs allow you to just clip out the fuse holder with anything small and pointy, swap it with an equal, and then pop it back in. It’s not like we’re expecting people to do rocket surgery here.
Thank you for your concern, but the comment was, as I said, tongue in cheek.
I’m confused about why you’re being so hostile. My only intention is to understand the rationale behind labeling the UK plug as the safest. We’ve already identified that the manner of how it fits into a wider, modern domestic setting is antiquated and other standards and plugs need to fit this purpose. You for example called out IEC 60309 for EVSE, SN441011 for household appliances, and the risks that plug fuses introduce through the nature of them needing to be repaired by an unskilled layperson with analogies to similarly unsafe practices.
If other plugs provide safe alternatives for the issues I’ve reiterated, shouldn’t we be looking at those plugs as safer alternatives?
There’s no UK standard for three-phase and high amperage sockets or plugs. In fact, UK sockets don’t support 16A three-phase at all, so if you have higher power needs (for example for EV charging) you’re left with having to install a dedicated wall box that uses an entirely different connector than the 3-pin UK plug, BS 1363.
Given this incompatibility, how can you argue that UK sockets are better, for instance, than SN 441011?
To say nothing of how comically giant every appliance plug needs to be, regardless of how low its wattage is?
I did notably just say that the plug is the best in the world for electrical safety. I’ve made no claims of it’s usefulness or convenience outside of that.
(( am also unaware of any country on the planet that uses the same plug/connector for general purpose household devices and 3 phase power. The number you provided, SN441011, also just leads to relatively generic household plug that doesn’t seem fit suited for multi phase use either, so not sure what you’re trying to say. I’ve also rarely seen places outside of industrial environments that have multiphase outlets, except in America, which has split phase power, and uses the voltage boost by going phase to phase instead of phase to ground. There’ll you’ll do often find 240V split phase outlets for high power appliances like shop heaters, electric clothes driers or EVSE, but those outlets also require unique receptacles and plugs))
E: I believe I misunderstood exactly what you meant. You’re complaining that UK electric code has nonstandard for a high power plug+socket combination. For one, that though has nothing at all to do with this plug. A lack of standard for a completely different plug has nothing to do with the quality of the plug at hand.
Also, there actually IS a standard, that is specifically adopted for EVSE in the UK. You can have a dedicated 400V three phase 32A circuit installed in your garage, and terminate in a red IEC 60309.
It’s not that the standard doesn’t exist, it’s just the UK has a very very heavy preference for simply hard wiring high power and multiphase appliances.
It’s a minor nuisance yeah sure, but it also has the nice advantage that there’s no need to fully mould plastic around it. UK plugs are pretty much universally openable, meaning you can repair them yourself if a fuse dies, or one of the wires comes lose. It’s also really easy, and literally all you need is a single screw driver, to swap a working plug over onto a cable who’s plug has broken.
But even so, it’s again not a safety issue so not exactly relevant to my poing.
By this logic, a potato is the best in terms of electrical safety. That’s of course tongue in cheek, but if we’re reducing plug capabilities in the interest of calling them safe, USB-A 1.0 is the “safest” because it only outputs 5V at 3A.
I’m sure I don’t need to point out how the plug is part of a broader electrical system and forms an integral part of it. Excusing the plug from an entire host of applications by stating that a different standard solves for that is the very point of my comment.
SN441011 is the Swiss system that through its 2-, 3- and 5-pin design supports single- and three-phase for up to 11 kW in domestic applications.
As an aide, regarding fuses in UK plugs: Putting the onus of electrical safety on the user for home repairs with a screwdriver is, in my opinion, inherently unsafe, especially when there’s no safe backup through a circuit breaker. Imagine an impatient user replaces a burnt fuse with a piece of aluminum foil.
I’m concerned that you thought that was legitimately some kind of good point you made there. The fact that we’re talking about a household plug and socket is blindingly obvious from context.
I have literally never in my life thought for even a millisecond “hey wouldn’t be useful if I could plug my regular appliances into a high power outlet too ?”
How many multiphase and high power outlets do you people have that needing to be forward compatible with regular single phase household plugs is relevant ?
There’s like maybe 2 or 3 devices in a home that even need multiphase high power outlets, like ovens+ranges, electric driers or water heaters or EVSE. And none of those tend to move around much.
Also, again, as I literally stated in in comment of above, that is a matter of convenience , not safety, so it’s an irrelevant point.
What if someone does that to a car fuse ? What if someone does it one of those old circuit fuses that you still get in old buildings without breakers ?
Or imagine an impatient home owner duck tapes their breaker/GFCI to “ON” because they can’t be arsed to find the fault that makes it trip every 20 seconds.
Idiots ignoring obvious safety instructions will make most ANY system unsafe. It’s not like replaying a fuse is a hard or dangerous process. Most plugs allow you to just clip out the fuse holder with anything small and pointy, swap it with an equal, and then pop it back in. It’s not like we’re expecting people to do rocket surgery here.
Thank you for your concern, but the comment was, as I said, tongue in cheek.
I’m confused about why you’re being so hostile. My only intention is to understand the rationale behind labeling the UK plug as the safest. We’ve already identified that the manner of how it fits into a wider, modern domestic setting is antiquated and other standards and plugs need to fit this purpose. You for example called out IEC 60309 for EVSE, SN441011 for household appliances, and the risks that plug fuses introduce through the nature of them needing to be repaired by an unskilled layperson with analogies to similarly unsafe practices.
If other plugs provide safe alternatives for the issues I’ve reiterated, shouldn’t we be looking at those plugs as safer alternatives?
Impossible to plug small plug into big power. I see no problems.