fnmain() {
letfoo = 10;
// Suddenly, types are implicit now. A safe language should never have implicit types (now it's the (IDEs) implementations judgement which type that is. Combined with the variable shadowing "feature", this seems like a major clusterfuck. Now the IDE is the sole thing to tell you that you totally fucked up the logic, and both declarations/definitions (well which one is it? Would be nice to always have a direct KEYWORD telling you which type this fucking variable has. But no, the lazy piece of shit Rust 'programmer' left that as an exercise to the dear reader. Because in they just need to leave that part out instead of explicitly stating "I'm a lazy piece of shit" by *instead* typing 'auto'.) This is just Python-level BS. Yes, I also hate C++ for its auto keyword - but at least it explicit.println!("The value of foo is {foo}");
letfoo = 20;
println!("The value of foo is {foo}");
}
fnadd_two(x: i32) ->i32 {
// That is, again, the syntax of Python. Why? Because Python is explicitly untyped. So having types be a *literal* afterthought is Ok. They're fully optional anywhere there. Now we're in Rust. They're sometimes optional, sometimes not, but they're always preferred. Yet, they're also an afterthought, seemingly.
x + 2// Implicit statements are bad. Very bad. They so much invite to glossing over stuff, especially when your brain expects to see something else. Also, having every statement ended with ;, except context blocks, but suddenly *not* having statements ending with ;, is fucking ugly (which is the entire point of this rant). It's completly inconsistent. Which in itself is a huge magnet for errors.
}
if x > 5 {
// Now why would you leave the parantheses, which are a major contributor to readability, away. Or even allow this. Rust is just memory safe, like dozens of other mainstream languages, but continues by allowing, promoting and requiring hazardous practices.println!("value is greater than five");
}
Now I’m slowly getting annoyed from typing on phone (at least in nvim), and my throat gets clogged with mucus again.
Remember, some of that are subjective preferences and opinions. And the core idea of Rust - fast but safe programs - is good, yet very obvious and not innovative at all, while the syntax and implementation (of cargo (yes I like to wait an hour for a simple webapp to compile because there aren’t binary crates and cargo just doesn’t multicore 99% of the time)) is subpar to something that’s hailed as the savior for everyone and everything by such a large cult.
“not having mandatory parenthesis in if statements is hazardous, so I prefer to write C instead of rust, because I really care about safety” < that’s how you sound.
In practice, type inference in Rust is not a problem since the language is so strongly typed. In fact, it is more strongly typed than both C and C++, and will force you to cast values explicitly in cases where C and C++ will happily mess up your variables without warning. The absence of type inference would also be a major pain, since nested types such as iterators can get quite complex and very verbose. If you’ve programmed using older C++ standards, then you know this pain
Types are not implicit, they’re inferred by the compiler when there is no ambiguity about what the type needs to be. This is a huge benefit for refactoring code and reducing maintenance. I acknowledge that sometimes you might care to know the exact type of the variable, and sometimes that’s not as easy for a human to infer as it is for the compiler, but every decent IDE will provide inline type hints for you. Interpreting code by reading it in plaintext is an exercise in masochism.
Python is actually the opposite on this, and it’s one of Python’s worst characteristics. The type is unknown until runtime unless you annotate it, and then the annotation isn’t really enforced. It’s the worst of every dimension.
C++11 introduced auto, and now the community is split between “almost always auto” and “never auto”.
JavaScript needed a whole new compiled language (Typescript) to fix its type system problems, and Typescript is only an incremental improvement at best.
Rust has the best type system of any modern language by far. If you’re tripped up by not always seeing the type declarations then you’re either focusing on the wrong details in the code or you just need a little more practice. The key thing that needs to sink in for new Rust users is that the compiler is always providing safety rails. That means it’s no longer your job to verify that every aspect of the code is correct. You can relax a little and actually have something akin to duck typing without all the pitfalls that usually come with it.
Sorry for intrusion, but mhm, nah. I get it there are people who want to play around and have language/compiler babysit them, but there are also people like me who want to see exactly what something is. So no, Rust, just like JavaScript, can be liked by some people, but it is in no way something that has “best type system”
There actually is no such thing as best type system, same way there is no such thing as best language
You betray so much of what your programming environment is like, with that comment. Because, you see, if you can’t behold the first x= expression on the same screen or, at very worst, the one above, then your code is majorly and deplorably fucked. It’s utterly trashed and is in immediate need of repair. If scrolling back to the first x= expression is overwhelming and exhausting work for you, then the codebase that you work in is mutilated beyond belief and any immediate hope. You need to drop what you’re doing, and get to unfucking you code right away so that you can have it in a comprehensible state that isn’t dependent on reminding the reader on every single line what stuff is like. You need to learn to split things in smaller things that humans can understand as their own self-contained units of meaning. When you reach the balance of formulating the code in self-contained units that can be comprehended easily, you won’t need type reminders on every line.
Not to mention that if you name your identifiers properly, you won’t have to wonder what their type should be.
I get it there are people who want to play around and have language/compiler babysit them, but there are also people like me who want to see exactly what something is.
This is a false dichotomy when it comes to Rust. Despite everything I said and despite Lucy’s complaint, there is nothing that actually stops someone from explicitly annotating the exact type when declaring a variable. It’s just not required by the language, and most developers eventually realize that it’s not actually useful.
You’re right that these preferences are subjective, be although much of that subjectivity has more to do with how our past experiences have shaped what we’re familiar with, rather than any intrinsic characteristics of person. By that I mean, someone who uses Rust enough will most likely come to like the way the general community styles its code, sooner or later. In the meantime you’re welcome to do things in a way that suits your needs.
The only thing that Rust’s type system is weak on is runtime reflection. There are ways to achieve it within Rust’s type system, but it’s considerably more work than what you get in Python and JavaScript. Imo the only reason to choose a language other than Rust for a greenfield project is if you have a strong need for runtime reflection all over the place and aren’t very concerned about performance, threading, or avoiding entire categories of bugs that the Rust compiler protects you from.
Being unable to give an actual example proves you’re just a foaming-mouth hater with nothing to contribute.
From the first syntax examples on Wikipedia:
fn main() { let foo = 10; // Suddenly, types are implicit now. A safe language should never have implicit types (now it's the (IDEs) implementations judgement which type that is. Combined with the variable shadowing "feature", this seems like a major clusterfuck. Now the IDE is the sole thing to tell you that you totally fucked up the logic, and both declarations/definitions (well which one is it? Would be nice to always have a direct KEYWORD telling you which type this fucking variable has. But no, the lazy piece of shit Rust 'programmer' left that as an exercise to the dear reader. Because in they just need to leave that part out instead of explicitly stating "I'm a lazy piece of shit" by *instead* typing 'auto'.) This is just Python-level BS. Yes, I also hate C++ for its auto keyword - but at least it explicit. println!("The value of foo is {foo}"); let foo = 20; println!("The value of foo is {foo}"); }fn add_two(x: i32) -> i32 { // That is, again, the syntax of Python. Why? Because Python is explicitly untyped. So having types be a *literal* afterthought is Ok. They're fully optional anywhere there. Now we're in Rust. They're sometimes optional, sometimes not, but they're always preferred. Yet, they're also an afterthought, seemingly. x + 2 // Implicit statements are bad. Very bad. They so much invite to glossing over stuff, especially when your brain expects to see something else. Also, having every statement ended with ;, except context blocks, but suddenly *not* having statements ending with ;, is fucking ugly (which is the entire point of this rant). It's completly inconsistent. Which in itself is a huge magnet for errors. }if x > 5 { // Now why would you leave the parantheses, which are a major contributor to readability, away. Or even allow this. Rust is just memory safe, like dozens of other mainstream languages, but continues by allowing, promoting and requiring hazardous practices. println!("value is greater than five"); }Now I’m slowly getting annoyed from typing on phone (at least in nvim), and my throat gets clogged with mucus again.
Remember, some of that are subjective preferences and opinions. And the core idea of Rust - fast but safe programs - is good, yet very obvious and not innovative at all, while the syntax and implementation (of cargo (yes I like to wait an hour for a simple webapp to compile because there aren’t binary crates and cargo just doesn’t multicore 99% of the time)) is subpar to something that’s hailed as the savior for everyone and everything by such a large cult.
“not having mandatory parenthesis in if statements is hazardous, so I prefer to write C instead of rust, because I really care about safety” < that’s how you sound.
In practice, type inference in Rust is not a problem since the language is so strongly typed. In fact, it is more strongly typed than both C and C++, and will force you to cast values explicitly in cases where C and C++ will happily mess up your variables without warning. The absence of type inference would also be a major pain, since nested types such as iterators can get quite complex and very verbose. If you’ve programmed using older C++ standards, then you know this pain
Types are not implicit, they’re inferred by the compiler when there is no ambiguity about what the type needs to be. This is a huge benefit for refactoring code and reducing maintenance. I acknowledge that sometimes you might care to know the exact type of the variable, and sometimes that’s not as easy for a human to infer as it is for the compiler, but every decent IDE will provide inline type hints for you. Interpreting code by reading it in plaintext is an exercise in masochism.
Python is actually the opposite on this, and it’s one of Python’s worst characteristics. The type is unknown until runtime unless you annotate it, and then the annotation isn’t really enforced. It’s the worst of every dimension.
C++11 introduced auto, and now the community is split between “almost always auto” and “never auto”.
JavaScript needed a whole new compiled language (Typescript) to fix its type system problems, and Typescript is only an incremental improvement at best.
Rust has the best type system of any modern language by far. If you’re tripped up by not always seeing the type declarations then you’re either focusing on the wrong details in the code or you just need a little more practice. The key thing that needs to sink in for new Rust users is that the compiler is always providing safety rails. That means it’s no longer your job to verify that every aspect of the code is correct. You can relax a little and actually have something akin to duck typing without all the pitfalls that usually come with it.
Sorry for intrusion, but mhm, nah. I get it there are people who want to play around and have language/compiler babysit them, but there are also people like me who want to see exactly what something is. So no, Rust, just like JavaScript, can be liked by some people, but it is in no way something that has “best type system”
There actually is no such thing as best type system, same way there is no such thing as best language
then go ahead and explicitly define the type of every variable. rust wont stop you from doing that
I can go ahead and just not use Rust to begin with, what is your point?
If you don’t realize that
x = 10denotes an integer of some default length, and thaty = 10.0is a float, then the language isn’t the problem.I am not gonna look for first x= expression when I want to know type
You betray so much of what your programming environment is like, with that comment. Because, you see, if you can’t behold the first
x=expression on the same screen or, at very worst, the one above, then your code is majorly and deplorably fucked. It’s utterly trashed and is in immediate need of repair. If scrolling back to the firstx=expression is overwhelming and exhausting work for you, then the codebase that you work in is mutilated beyond belief and any immediate hope. You need to drop what you’re doing, and get to unfucking you code right away so that you can have it in a comprehensible state that isn’t dependent on reminding the reader on every single line what stuff is like. You need to learn to split things in smaller things that humans can understand as their own self-contained units of meaning. When you reach the balance of formulating the code in self-contained units that can be comprehended easily, you won’t need type reminders on every line.Not to mention that if you name your identifiers properly, you won’t have to wonder what their type should be.
Lol. Thanks for the trip in your dreams, but that will be enough for me. Have a good day
Stage one: denial.
This is a false dichotomy when it comes to Rust. Despite everything I said and despite Lucy’s complaint, there is nothing that actually stops someone from explicitly annotating the exact type when declaring a variable. It’s just not required by the language, and most developers eventually realize that it’s not actually useful.
You’re right that these preferences are subjective, be although much of that subjectivity has more to do with how our past experiences have shaped what we’re familiar with, rather than any intrinsic characteristics of person. By that I mean, someone who uses Rust enough will most likely come to like the way the general community styles its code, sooner or later. In the meantime you’re welcome to do things in a way that suits your needs.
The only thing that Rust’s type system is weak on is runtime reflection. There are ways to achieve it within Rust’s type system, but it’s considerably more work than what you get in Python and JavaScript. Imo the only reason to choose a language other than Rust for a greenfield project is if you have a strong need for runtime reflection all over the place and aren’t very concerned about performance, threading, or avoiding entire categories of bugs that the Rust compiler protects you from.
or that I don’t want to twist my brain with Rust way of things. But I agree with you on everything else :)
If you don’t understand how having any statement be an expression is useful, you don’t have enough experience to criticize programming languages.