I just had a thought, do they still put a shitload of antibiotics into animal feeds on factory farms? Doesn’t that contribute to antibiotic resistance?
Don’t look at what being used to fertilize your fruits and vegetables. Don’t look at what being sprayed on any of those fruits and vegetables. Don’t look at any of the other pieces of the food chain.
I mean that all depends on the organization whether they consider it organic or not and they’re not using man-made fertilizer and using natural fertilizers etc. I think quite more of the people that are into that type of lifestyle are more interested in eating organically which it’s more common to utilize something like a manure fertilizer.
That’s why, in general you should look into non-GMO or organic foods. There are a few fruits and vegetables that are hardy on their own, but berries, broccoli, spinach, etc tend to absorb the chemicals used by farmers and people are indirectly ingesting them.
Grass does take up a huge area. What would you do with that area considering it’s too dry or too infertile to grow anything other than grass, and it can only manage grass when there’s animals fertilising it
Any grass eating animal makes methane. Rot on idle land makes methane. If all the cows were killed deer would equal their biomass quickly. Cows are managed and there are plans for modifying their microbiome to completely process their food to CO2. This is the same weight of carbon that the grass regrows. Methane effectually breaks down to CO2 so castle are carbon neutral, but the time as methane is a problem
Animal welfare. Indeed a long list. I would love to see many types of animal agriculture banned. Some are far too cruel for a wealthy nation
I don’t believe you.
I’m not saying everyone must eat only meat, and lots of it. Why should I be restricted from what you can’t afford?
It is necessary to eat animals of you wish to thrive and do not wish to take supplements. Look up the list of what vegans sold supplement to be healthy; it’s a much longer list than a person on a mixed diet
Mixed diet required supplements:
; empty list
Vegan required supplement list:
Vitamin B12
Vitamin D (unless you produce enough cholesterol and get enough sunlight)
I just provided some other reasons to not eat grass-fed animals. Seems you have a single sided view on all of them. A fully nuanced overview would take books to write, so I’ll abbreviate it to some counter arguments:
Humans should not exploit the whole planet, we’re already causing the 6th mass extinction as it is. Lots of current grass land would have forests or marshes grow back. When nature grows back instead of monocultural grass, this is not only good for biodiversity, it also captures CO2, which lowers global temperatures. Like what happened in the Little Ice Age from 1400-1800, when epidemics in Europe and the Americas reduced human population, with less land required for food production.
Grass requires fertilizer to restore the depletion of minerals in the soil taken out by cattle and humans. And fertilizer requires huge amounts of energy to make, heating up the planet. Further, letting other plants grow than only grasses moves animals away from rumination and associated methane production.
Grass fed animals are slaughtered in the same houses as where the rest of cattle is malhandled, as time is of the essence for profits, which induces violence and often leads to animal awareness during slaughtering. These animals also lead a life in captivity and have been bred to be a mere shadow of the wild animals they once were.
There are lots of studies and websites that support my claim. But people are funny when it comes to belief, they can (dis)believe almost anything.
Money generally influences people’s choices, even when they have enough of it.
As you may have guessed I don’t eat animals, the only supplement I take is vitamin B12 once a week, the rest I get enough of through my daily diet. There’s really no need to eat animal products, grass fed or not.
If 2 is correct, how are the permaculture farms I get meat from increasing the carbon stored in their soil? Does your fod come from permaculture farms?
3 isn’t true unless the animals were raised in the same area, which they often are not.
4 I’m in a meat eating community which was often trolled by people. The vegan studies they shared were not convincing, they were predominately based on for frequency questionnaires, that’s why I’m not convinced. Do you know of any RCTs or even just well controlled studies? They’re unfortunately not common enough for diet - they have trouble randomly assigning someone to a diet for long enough to make a difference
Googling for Sydney diet heart study gives you an at-first-glance correct AI summary of that test. It was suppressed in the '70s when the data was collected, but accidentally found and republished using modern statistic techniques in 2013. You haven’t heard of it because it says margarine is more dangerous than butter
Would you expect a carnivore dieter to be most at risk from heart disease? The sporty carnivores have cholesterol 5x the upper edge of the guidance. This worried one enough to raise money, start a research foundation, and fund some research. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772963X2400303X the AI summary isn’t good on this, it didn’t get the 2024 update.
5. Meat is expensive compared to plants and fungus kilo for kilo, you ought to be happy.
If you get night blindness, urgently start supplementing retinol (vitamin A) people who previously ate meat have about a 5 year supply stored in their fat, I guess obese people have much more, but I doubt there are many obese vegans; I don’t think there are obese carnivores either, except those who have only just started it in order to lose weight
I don’t think your choice is significantly worse than mine for someone who can afford supplementation. I’m sure just like in carnivore people talk about all the health problems that are caused by the current terrible common food but are fixed by the diet change.
Yeah, from what I understand, countries try to regulate the use of antibiotics, so that we don’t blow the most potent ones, a.k.a. new ones, right away. But on some level, we’re reliant on regularly discovering new antibiotics, which isn’t great.
We still give them shitloads yeah, but it’s complicated. Changes have been made globally. There’s basically no risk to us. The antibiotics don’t get into our food, and the superbugs that might breed aren’t viable in humans. Wild animals still pose more risk.
and the superbugs that might breed aren’t viable in humans.
But diseases jump from non-humans to humans all the time?
At least, Wikipedia chooses to spell out the sentence “Most human diseases originated in non-humans” and lists a who’s who of pandemics as such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis
I just had a thought, do they still put a shitload of antibiotics into animal feeds on factory farms? Doesn’t that contribute to antibiotic resistance?
Just another good reason to not eat animals
Don’t look at what being used to fertilize your fruits and vegetables. Don’t look at what being sprayed on any of those fruits and vegetables. Don’t look at any of the other pieces of the food chain.
I assume you’re talking about manure, but I think industrially-made fertilizers made from hydrocarbons/phosphor/potash are way, way more common, no?
I mean that all depends on the organization whether they consider it organic or not and they’re not using man-made fertilizer and using natural fertilizers etc. I think quite more of the people that are into that type of lifestyle are more interested in eating organically which it’s more common to utilize something like a manure fertilizer.
The animals eat the same food so in the end you can’t escape it. But you can stop to make animals suffer for your burger.
That’s why, in general you should look into non-GMO or organic foods. There are a few fruits and vegetables that are hardy on their own, but berries, broccoli, spinach, etc tend to absorb the chemicals used by farmers and people are indirectly ingesting them.
Check out this guy. Still doesn’t understand what fertilizer is made of. Especially organic…
I honestly don’t understand what point you’re trying make.
At least not the animals that are fed modified food. It’s no reason to not eat grass fed animals
It you think torture and killing animals is not a reason, then yea sure.
It is necessary to eat animals of you wish to thrive and do not wish to take supplements. Look up the list of what vegans sold supplement to be healthy; it’s a much longer list than a person on a mixed diet
Mixed diet required supplements:
; empty list
Vegan required supplement list:
According to https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-supplements-for-vegans#6-Zinc
I would add creatine to the list, since it’s seeming more and more important and only occurs in meat.
Funny that herbivores don’t need supplementation, but we do, even though we can eat so many different plants than most herbivores.
I just provided some other reasons to not eat grass-fed animals. Seems you have a single sided view on all of them. A fully nuanced overview would take books to write, so I’ll abbreviate it to some counter arguments:
As you may have guessed I don’t eat animals, the only supplement I take is vitamin B12 once a week, the rest I get enough of through my daily diet. There’s really no need to eat animal products, grass fed or not.
1 seems to be a population comment.
If 2 is correct, how are the permaculture farms I get meat from increasing the carbon stored in their soil? Does your fod come from permaculture farms?
3 isn’t true unless the animals were raised in the same area, which they often are not.
4 I’m in a meat eating community which was often trolled by people. The vegan studies they shared were not convincing, they were predominately based on for frequency questionnaires, that’s why I’m not convinced. Do you know of any RCTs or even just well controlled studies? They’re unfortunately not common enough for diet - they have trouble randomly assigning someone to a diet for long enough to make a difference
Googling for
Sydney diet heart studygives you an at-first-glance correct AI summary of that test. It was suppressed in the '70s when the data was collected, but accidentally found and republished using modern statistic techniques in 2013. You haven’t heard of it because it says margarine is more dangerous than butterThis is the paper if the summary isn’t enough: https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8707
Would you expect a carnivore dieter to be most at risk from heart disease? The sporty carnivores have cholesterol 5x the upper edge of the guidance. This worried one enough to raise money, start a research foundation, and fund some research. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772963X2400303X the AI summary isn’t good on this, it didn’t get the 2024 update.
5. Meat is expensive compared to plants and fungus kilo for kilo, you ought to be happy.
If you get night blindness, urgently start supplementing retinol (vitamin A) people who previously ate meat have about a 5 year supply stored in their fat, I guess obese people have much more, but I doubt there are many obese vegans; I don’t think there are obese carnivores either, except those who have only just started it in order to lose weight
I don’t think your choice is significantly worse than mine for someone who can afford supplementation. I’m sure just like in carnivore people talk about all the health problems that are caused by the current terrible common food but are fixed by the diet change.
Yeah, from what I understand, countries try to regulate the use of antibiotics, so that we don’t blow the most potent ones, a.k.a. new ones, right away. But on some level, we’re reliant on regularly discovering new antibiotics, which isn’t great.
Iirc it doesn’t because the antibiotics don’t target the same bacteria that makes humans sick.
Until those diseases jump the species gap
I don’t think that’s super common for bacteria. You see it more with viruses.
Yersinia Pestis has entered the chat
I didn’t say it never happens, but it’s pretty rare.
oh my man/lass, next time you buy a tangerine have a look at the label on what they put on the skin
They also have to remember that doesn’t count what gets put in the ground to fertilize that plant to make it grow.
We still give them shitloads yeah, but it’s complicated. Changes have been made globally. There’s basically no risk to us. The antibiotics don’t get into our food, and the superbugs that might breed aren’t viable in humans. Wild animals still pose more risk.
But diseases jump from non-humans to humans all the time?
At least, Wikipedia chooses to spell out the sentence “Most human diseases originated in non-humans” and lists a who’s who of pandemics as such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis
Or do you mean something different?