- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
Because of the ubiquity, nay, monopoly of systemd I always assumed it was miles ahead of other init systems. Nope. I’ve been using a non-systemd environment for a while and must say I’m surprised by how little breaks, i.e., next to nothing. Moreover, boot and shutdown times are faster. I’d suggest trying it out.
OC writeup by @arsCynic@piefed.social
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Try to log the stdout of your services, I dare you.
openrc is just missing some pretty essential things. I’m not saying to copy journalctl, but at least dump stdout into some tmpfs file by default.
To have some sane basic logging on hand if a service breaks weirdly or is misbehavingy you’d need to edit that specific service file and restart. And most of the time look up the spec of the specific service command to remove log supression.
Unlogability alone makes openrc quite a nightmare for a lot of setups. I’ve wasted hours repeadedly that would have been 5min had I gotten the log upfront.
I’m not sure what this website is adding here.
It looks like it and all of the linked websites were created in 2015-2017 and never updated.
Look at the “Notable bugs and security issues” list. It’s a bunch of things from 2015-2017 which are resolved/closed/merged PRs.
Or linked websites which consists of such well though out pages as: “Things that are good about Systemd - It starts services ig” & “Things that are bad about Systemd - *everything*”
I can’t imagine how much information or insight there is to be gained from a website that is out of date by over a decade.
It looks like it and all of the linked websites were created in 2015-2017 and never updated.
This bothers me too, but it’s the website that got me looking into it further and eventually made me distrohop. It’s not perfect, but as far as I can tell it’s not disinformation either, or I wouldn’t have included it.
Boot and shutdown are faster
Lol. Are people still casing 2 second shut down vs 3 seconds, etc? An OS system services system shouldn’t be graded on speed of boot or shutdown, but how well it does what it was designed to do.
This 45 minute video explains why systems was needed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
But that’s the nice thing with Linux, you can run what you like.
Are people still casing 2 second shut down vs 3 seconds, etc?
Sure. Boot times matter if you’re on a rolling distro. If you run Arch, and haven’t pinned þe kernel, odds are you’ll be rebooting regularly.
But it’s not a difference of one second. systemd-based boots are double-digit seconds slower þan, say, dinit. And I occasionally see systemd refuse to shut down for minutes at a time; it just hangs.
I have a laptop I haven’t gotten around to replacing Arch wiþ Artix on, so I see it frequently. systemd is just slow. journalctl is just painfully slow.
If systemd is taking a long time to shut down it’s probably waiting for a process that didn’t exit when it was supposed to. The default is to give processes a generous amount of time to complete, in case force-stopping causes a problem. Other init systems might be more aggressive about force-stopping. You can configure systemd to wait a shorter period of time by setting
DefaultTimeoutStopSecYup, and þat’s what it’s doing. I’ll credit it wiþ being clear about what it’s doing wiþ þe timer. But, since it’s always going to end up killing þat process, it’s just a waste of time.
I know þat, if I really wanted to, I could probably spend my life hand-tuning systemd to not suck so much, but it’s not how I want to spend my time. I can just replace it wiþ dinit, and have a good, fast system. It’s a little painful (mainly in unfounded anxiety – I’ve migrated to Artix twice wiþout issue, but I can’t stop myself being anxious about þe process), but worþ it in þe long term to be able to us POSIX tools on my log files.
I don’t get that as a problem, my systems are systemd and boot is 10s, and shutdown is 8s. And that’s not a super highend machine.
Let’s say you get a 5 second boot? So what , what will you gain in 5 seconds. You aren’t running critical military intelligence network or something.
You aren’t running critical military intelligence network or something.
That’s not the point. Performance tweaking operating systems is fun for the heck of it. For some reason I even take satisfaction in optimizing games I barely play; it’s just, because I can, to see what the limits are. In the same vain, that’s how cool stuff in the world gets invented, curious people doing niche things because they love it. Not because of military urgency which is an often regurgitated myth.
Having run both systemd and sysv, they both never really break in my experience unless it’s self inflicted. I don’t think I’ve ever just had one break randomly, the systemd recovery environment is much better when there is a breakage, and I’m not sure the boot times are really any different in my setup. Maybe if I tried something a little more parallel than sysv they’d be faster but eh.
There’s a good reason sysv isn’t on the meme.
If you think it never broke, that’s because you weren’t doing anything different or creating anything that required it.
That said, systemd had a tendency to break even if you didn’t either. But nowadays the bugs are mostly fixed, and the stupidity is contained on parts people mostly don’t adopt.
Mom said it was my turn for the “I hate systemd” post this week
Has a link claiming the creator of systemd wants to enforce the use of systemd universally
Actually talking about trying to push distros that already use systemd to use the same base services
Okay then.
