I am from india. These numbers are inflated due to our population and government and health sector office pc using linux (ubuntu). These office pcs just require a chrome browser and all the work is done on the browser Nobody here cares what os they use in their office pc. I don’t see anyone here switching to linux on their personal pc other than the IT students who are forced to install kali linux. And most of them are running linux on virtualbox on windows.
Steam deck is not even officially sold here and imported ones that are sold cost 950$ for the 512 gb variant. So it is a ultra niche item here. .
People here buy desktops only for gaming/content creation, which means most households here doesn’t need/require a desktop. And these people always prefer mac or windows.
Also gaming scene here is dominated by mobile games (because gaming pcs and consoles are too expensive and we have the cheapest internet and phone prices) As for pc games it is dominated by valorant, Minecraft and gtav (fivem rp).
Edit - Many consider this a huge win. But getting market share in the office space for basic browsing and word processing inflates the numbers for actual game/app developers who wants to support linux and they will disappointed seeing the actual usage and they will abandon the linux support. Also the indian market isn’t buying laptop/desktops for browsing, they just use their phone because pc hardware is expensive and phones prices are cheap. And anyone who is buying desktops for serious tasks stick to windows and mac.
What do you want? A stat counter for everyone’s personal PC?
The government of India, the largest country by population, using Linux is… a huge win?
Indeed, sounds like a legitimate win to me.
It’s basically a FOSS Chromebook.
It’s a huge win, but not the kind of win people reading the statistic with no context (like me) probably thought.
I’m sure a lot of us looked at “15 percent of desktop PCs in India run Linux” and, regardless of whether it was hasty and irresponsible for us to do so, extrapolated that to, “15 percent of Indian PC users are personally selecting Linux and normalizing its paradigms”.
But in reality, it sounds more like “15 percent of Indian PC users use Linux to launch Google Chrome”. Which is impressive, but not the specific kind of impressive we wanted.
It feels a bit like how I imagine, say, a song artist feels when they pour their heart and soul into a piece of music, it gets modest to no traction for a while, and then years later a 20 second loop becomes the backing track for a massive Tiktok meme, and almost zero of that attention trickles back to their other work.
Most people on MacOS only use a web browser. Most people on Windows only use a web browser. Its nothing to be ashamed of.
No one said it was shameful?
He is trying to discredit the stat just because most of the use is opening a web browser. That’s a fine use for an operating system and just as valid.
It’s a win, but not something that has any meaningful impact on normalizing Linux desktop usage.
It’s not going to help the network effects of convincing vendors or manufacturers provide better support for Linux.
All they need is a chrome browser, so why would the government waste money on windows licences? A huge win is when personal pcs switch to linux. Linux doing basic web browsing and word processing is not a huge win.
These numbers are inflated due to our population and government and health sector office pc using linux (ubuntu).
They are not inflated. Office use is the majority of desktop use elsewhere in the world too. It’s very much a apples to apples comparison.
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Microsoft is as ubiquitous as it is specifically because of decades long efforts to be the default in government offices around the world. So the Indian government using Linux definitely counts as a win.
I get what you’re trying to say but I work in a large healthcare organisation in the UK and our PCs run Windows. Most of the work across our organisation is done within a virtual machine window for our Electronic Patient Record; the local OS on the PC is largely irrelevant. The exception is that office is used for email and that causes a drag on moving away from Windows - people are used to using Outlook rather than just using a webmail or other tool.
Windows has that market share currently largely through inertia rather than going for the most cost effective option. The 15% in India with government and health sector use does count, it’s quite an achievement to have successfully deployed a vendor neutral operating system for other tools to be deployed on to. Shame it’s using Chrome though. In the UK Healthcare we’re wasting huge sums licensing and maintaining Windows when we really shouldn’t be.
The workflow actually works on any browser. Chrome is used because that icon is recognisable and IT guy can just say click on the chrome icon and people understand that.
I work in the health sector. All PCs in my hospital (Quite a big one, 90K+ Admissions last year) are Dell Pre Built with a dual core Pentium and 4GB RAM, all running Ubuntu. Everything from Discharge Summaries to Medical Advices are made using Google Chrome in the Hospital Management System.
You cant count out office PCs where do you think all the windows stats come from?
they just use their phone because pc hardware is expensive and phones prices are cheap.
Lol, this is so wrong and misleading. Like the whole post. Even for 350 dollars you could buy a used laptop which probably is more able to properly browse/word process than any of your smartphones.
And for $200 you can get a smartphone that is more than good enough
@Bene7rddso @dino And sometimes the thing you need ends up being the one you get first. I need a phone and can get by without a PC.
Phones in India can be bought for near 50$, and that provide everything a common citizen (and I mean mandatory government app and messaging) need. And 50$ still isn’t cheap for most of the population. It’s a totally different economy than usa
For text processing? Okay, checks out.
With Google Docs it works. If you need more a cheap tablet and Bluetooth keyboard & mouse is still cheaper
Yes, and I place the smartphone on my smartphoneholder glasses so I can actually see what I am typing on my bluetooth keyboard… oyoyoyoyoy
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Every single one of my friends are on Linux. Only one of them is in “IT”. Most of my family is on Linux, because they didn’t want to deal with viruses and ads. (I don’t even “IT” for any of them, so I wasn’t consulted. At best I introduced them to the fact that Linux is at least as usable as Windows many years ago). A lot of my colleagues are on Linux; now, most of them are devs, but some of them are on macs and until Apples’s Proton-clone becomes a viable option running Linux on them is just cleaner.
Obviously, we’re less than a rounding error all summed together. Obviously, most of that number is from government issue systems. But it’s not as bleak and impersonal as it seems.
But so what?
Why do these numbers matter at all? Is it inherently virtuous for a country to have a high number of willing Linux users? Or is it because at least these machines waste fewer resources, run cooler, and more secure? Then does it matter who and why installed Linux on them?
If their users are fine with using a browser for all their work, and the offices can buy these PCs for cheaper than Chromebooks after our infamous taxes, not to mention avoid being ewaste for much longer, this is a win-win situation whichever way we look at it.
P.S. that I also own a Steam Deck (and use as my only PC) probably doesn’t help my everyman-credibility much 😅
In my defence, I could afford/justify it only because a good friend volunteered to buy it for me and bring it over. I wish things were different. But I’m happy I have one, at least.
I think it’s a win. For most people the computer is a tool to look up information and communicate, etc. If they can do that with free software, we all benefit, even if they don’t fall down the rabbit hole and spend endless nights configuring tiling window managers and arguing about vi vs emacs.
Lately I’ve felt an itch to put together a manual for these people, a sort of “Linux for people who don’t really care about Linux”-manual. The problem I guess is that they are not likely to seek out a manual to begin with.Removed by mod
As a physiotherapist, I liked this part especially: “Take computer breaks every hour, and rotate your eyes and shoulders.” :)
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“Nobody cares” is how Linux will eventually win on the desktop. It becomes viable for most people when they no longer “need” whatever they were using before. As Linux is free, it will win when it becomes “good enough”.
Office use dominates desktop use everywhere in the world at this point. So, nothing in India sounds unique per se. In wealthier countries, Windows can be purchased because it does not cost that much and so it just makes sense to reduce risk and go with the flow. Compared to India, there is a reduced incentive to ask if Windows is needed.
In the USA in particular, there is a wealthy creative class that props up the macOS numbers. MacOS having 25% share in the US is an anomaly driven by software development, media production, and lifestyle. Economically, this is more of a hardware choice than an OS decision. The prevalence of Mac laptops drives these numbers.
Outside of office use, the next biggest category is gaming. Again, if money is no object and you are buying the latest NVDIA kit, Windows still has an advantage. This is changing though.
The Linux gaming tech stack is rapidly improving and NVIDIA specific issues are finally being addressed. I see the next 24 months as pivotal. Linux gaming is likely to be the vector that drives Linux adoption in the first world. That will be sticky adoption. Developers will follow. In the US, this will create enough exposure to push Linux to the mainstream. If Linux becomes mainstream in the US, the barrier to adoption drops all over the world. See first paragraph.
“Nobody cares” is how Linux will eventually win on the desktop. It becomes viable for most people when they no longer “need” whatever they were using before. As Linux is free, it will win when it becomes “good enough”.
The largest barrier is the fact that the end user is expected to install the OS themselves. Having an OS work 100% of the time right out of the box with a default install is impossible. Windows and OSX have a huge advantage by being installed on the factory floor. The manufacturer guarantees that the drivers work for the hardware they decide to install and that the default applications on the OS work as they should.
Linux needs an equivalent to Microsoft or Apple that can put Linux on shelves at WalMart for average people that buy $600 desktops.
Microsoft spent millions of dollars and clout to lock their OEM out of offering Linux on the desktop. There’s a good reason why you don’t see Linux PCs on the shelves of Walmart.
These numbers are inflated due to our population and government and health sector office pc using linux
So just like Windows numbers being massively inflated because of corporate computer fleets?
These office pcs just require a chrome browser and all the work is done on the browser Nobody here cares what os they use in their office pc.
Right, so again, the mostly the same with Windows for both office and personal use.
I don’t see anyone here switching to linux on their personal pc other than the IT students who are forced to install kali linux.
What are you expecting exactly? Is the choice of each person supposed to be formally announced? Are we supposed to real into a populated areas and declare like Micheal Scott “I declare: I’M USING LINUUUUUX!”?
People here buy desktops only for gaming/content creation, which means most households here doesn’t need/require a desktop.
You just described the entire world. This is far from unique to India. Most people I know don’t have a desktop and maybe have a laptop, and I live in North America.
Not to be conceded, but I’m guessing this post is in response to my comments from a couple days ago?
I really don’t understand your point. It’s like you’re saying “the users in India don’t count because they’re not using Linux the way I do”.
Does that mean that all the workstations at CERN don’t count? Or that the systems up on the ISS don’t count?
To me (and I’m certain most people in general would agree) the ISS story is very important, because they were originally running Windows on those systems, but it kept crashing. They switched to Linux to get more stability out of those systems and have been using Linux ever since.
Also, does the story of the City of Munich switching to Linux not count either? It’s supposed to be a major win, btw. A city government switching away from Windows and choosing to go with Linux is huge. I see it the same way with India. The more often people are Linux in the wild, the more normalized it is and the more mind share it generates. And mind share is huge in getting people to make a certain choice. It’s the reason why product ads are everywhere. The more often you see a product/brand, the more likely you are to say to yourself “that’s the thing I’ll buy”.
Before anyone says Munich switched back to Windows, they didn’t. Microsoft made an under-table deal with some officials with the at-the-time in power government to switch back to Windows if they set up a Microsoft office in Munich. Then a new government was voted in a few months later and said “hell no, we’re continuing with the Linux rollout” and that’s where we are today. The City of Munich is a Linux success story.
Ultimately your post was just stating some facts and then waffling on about how it doesn’t count.
You just described the entire world. This is far from unique to India. Most people I know don’t have a desktop and maybe have a laptop, and I live in North America.
I’m pretty sure in Europe, UK and Switzerland almost every household has at least one PC. A lot even one per person. Everyone I know from Europe has their own in their room and kids usually get their own in their teens. The difference between poorer households and rich are usually just how good/new those PCs are.
I’m in Canada and work in IT. Most of the people I know that have desktop systems are other IT people or PC gamers. Otherwise most of everyone else uses a laptop.
You work in IT but you distinguish between desktop systems and laptops? Why?
Lol, especially because I work in IT. I’m tired of companies only issuing laptops to employees when SFF systems get you more for less. The company where I work currently sends out a laptop, two monitors, a mouse, and keyboard for all hires.
They were giving out 8GB systems to developers (mostly running Windows and Visual Studio). It was a massive issue. I made a big deal out of it and advocated for new systems with 32GB. They bought new systems, sent them out, and it turns out they all had 16GB.
The person doing the order missed that detail and thought they were getting a deal for the company. Which resulted in a complicated process of ordering everyone an extra stick of RAM and then trying to instruct everyone how to open a laptop to install the RAM.
A SFF system would have solved much of these problems. Cheaper than laptops, usually better specs and thermals, and far easier to upgrade.
So to me, there’s a massive difference between desktops and laptops.
By SFF you are talking small form factor? To my knowledge there is only one big player in this field which is Intel NUC and I am not even sure THEY have business support. Thats a big argument for laptops, because you get proper business support compared to niche products like SFF devices.
But maybe I completely missed your point.
SFF is an entire class of desktop computing with multiple product lines from HP, Lenovo, Dell, etc.
The Intel NUC was a unique subset often called a “mini pc”.
Businesses buy SFF systems all the time. My point was simply that SFF should be favoured over laptops in many cases, instead of being the default employee device within a company.
So most of the entire world is using windows/mac if they want to do something serious other than web browsing. And most of the linux desktop usage is contributed by enterprise and office pcs using linux. People still use windows and mac on their personal pc. So it is not a huge win if you want developer support for games and apps. Even if developers follow these numbers and start supporting linux, they will soon realise it is not worth their time because linux usage is mostly due to enterprise running chrome.
OP, you say those folks only launch a chrome browser and so aren’t choosing Linux themselves. Fine. But looking at it from the system perspective, they’re inadvertently learning how to use Linux. How to make WiFi selection in that interface. How to deal with patches and upgrades and vulnerabilities and hacks. Sure, they’re basically only using the browser. But do they never download a file? Open it in the system file browser? Attach it back in the browser?
All of these user interactions are what define a person’s experience on a system. If you think of one of the main differences between iOS and Android, you’ll see how in iOS files are a second class citizen and apps are first class citizens. That means iOS defers to the app first and then considers a file as an independent entity. That’s a strategic decision that defines how generations of iOS users perceive the world around them. It’s what helped companies like Notion become the behemoths they are because everyone accepted that if you want to build a knowledge base, you can just start writing text in an app or browser and not consider files as the first point of contact for the knowledge base user.
By using Linux on a day to day basis, those users are slowly unlearning what they’ve come to understand is the default behavior of a system - most likely whatever Windows does.
Somewhere down the line they’ll crib and hate on windows enough to what something different. That might end up being Mac, but for a large swathe of people, it might end up being some Linux variant too.
