4 pane comic of dolan on the left and spooderman on the right

pane 1 (dolan): cum join opensurce cummunity!
pane 2 (spooderman): shure! how joyn?
pane 3 (dolan): Here discord! (with discord logo)
pane 4 (spooderman with tears in eyes): y u do dis?

  • ono@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago
    • Terrible format for archiving knowledge
    • Terrible tool for retrieving knowledge
    • Locks community access behind a corporate license agreement
    • Hands control of community-created content to a corporation
    • Prevents indexing by web search engines
    • Antithetical to interoperability
    • Privacy-hostile

    A web forum is far better in most cases. If you can’t manage to run your own, there are plenty of lemmy servers that will do it for you. Even an email list (with searchable archives) would be better than Discord.

    If you have collaborative documents that outgrow the forum format, use a wiki.

    If real-time chat is needed, irc or matrix.

    A project hosting its community on Discord is a project that won’t get my contributions.

    • elrik@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      I recently went through these exact pains trying to contribute to a project that exclusively ran through Discord and eventually had to give up when it was clear they would never enable issues in their GitHub repos for “reasons.”

      It was impossible to discover the history behind anything. Even current information was lost within days, having to rehash aspects that were already investigated and decided upon.

      • wrekone@lemmyf.uk
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        It’s the “see no evil” approach. If you didn’t report the issue while the admin was online, then they aren’t compelled to do anything about it. Convenient for the project maintainer who doesn’t actually like maintaining things. Awful for the rest of us.

      • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        would never enable issues in their Git…

        That’s a worrying sign for a project.

        Did you clone their Git and start tracking issues there? ;-)

  • vvv@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    9 months ago

    it’s awful and I hate it. I generally prefer not to have a shared identity across communities, and there’s no way to create a usable discord identity without a phone number.

    • ALostInquirer@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      While I agree, what might everyday people use to set up forums as relatively easily and cheaply as their Discord servers, and not have them riddled with ads or other clunky elements?

      I’m pretty sure those that may have even been considering forums went to Discord because the only other options were more involved in terms of set up/maintenance and cost, the latter to get something without ads.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        convenient for what? forcing me to join a server, go through onboarding, and potentially even deal with not having enough spyware loaded on my information, at best waiting 10 minutes to say ANYTHING, and at worst not being able to say anything at all.

        Not to mention these on boarding processes can explode and cause problems from time to time. Discord is only convenient for real time chatting, nothing else.

  • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    9 months ago

    Discord is a fucking plague. I loathe it for communities. As soon as there are more than 10 people in a room, no one can follow what anyone is saying. Threads? No dude, this isn’t the 90s! Let’s slack it up!!! 🤮

    • sep@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      All chat tools after irc have been trash for large communities. That includes slack. Irc somehow still works with 1500 people in it. I can not explain how. With a logging bot the discussions can be archived for google searchabillity. I guess that could be true for a discord or slack also, But i never seen it implemented. In most slacks i can not search more then 60 days back.

        • Beefalo@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          I wonder if it works like IRC. The “plague” this entire time has been servers. As soon as the idea only works because somebody, somewhere, is maintaining a server, cloud or hardware, then you’re kinda sunk. The server is the bottleneck. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen a AAA game launch only for the servers to be inadequate. It happens again and again and again, so I assume the business considerations push them toward having just enough server and maybe a little less, never extra, which costs money and cuts margins.

          Somewhere there are a bunch of servers howling away in a room that are actually Discord, and Discord spends money to make them howl, so there’s never as much server as you want, which is why things start bogging down with too many people in the chat room at once.

          Most importantly to a corporation, if you have to interact with their servers in order to do anything, then they can own the platform by owning the servers. So there’s always going to be a server, even if it’s not strictly needed. The same consideration goes through the head of the streamer who always wants to launch a Discord because it’s “free” but they can sell it to you and then have top level control of an entire community as an asset that can be sold to others. There’s always a server. There will be a server if the actual application doesn’t really need it.

          The reason IRC works fine with 1500 people in a chat is because IRC uses the user’s machine for any sort of computation power it needs, and then everything else it is doing is just sending data across wires. There is no central server farm. I haven’t used IRC in a really, really long time, but if it hasn’t changed, then it also doesn’t support lots of picture posting, which helps. Most of the memory usage on my machine at idle is just too many Discord channels all needing to use my local RAM memory to store the umpteen thousand photos everyone has uploaded, all the memes and etc. The IRC I remember was text, and text uses so little data that it can be treated like zero data.

          Lots of pictures are probably non-negotiable in the modern era. Heck, they’re pretty important for serious work tasks, like putting up a shot of the broken gadget, so the engineering team can get an eyeball on the failure, that means pictures are in, text-only isn’t viable. I don’t know if modern IRC supports this or not, it probably does if people are still using it at all.

          But IRC is a piece of open-source software that you install on your machine, free to the user. It’s not a web app, it doesn’t live in a browser. The data of you interacting with others is being sent out to them and also back to you, where it shows up in your IRC client and the chat room. If 1500 people are using it, then 1500 people have each added some of their machine power to making it all work, so it scales, it always has as much hardware as it needs. Again, there’s no server in the middle to run out of capacity, so that problem is just bypassed.

          Everything used to work like this, circa the late 1990s and early 2010s. Everyone was assumed to be on a PC of their own, and the only problem was how to connect them together to do stuff, like have deranged fan wars about shows. BBSs were already kind of old hat, and there’s that damn server again, every BBS has one. All the most clever apps of the 90s, even the web, managed to jump through hoops to avoid the necessity of a central server to get things done because then somebody has to pay for it, run it, maintain it and own it. We just want the wires, the lovely, lovely cables dragged across the sea at somebody else’s unthinkable expense. If you can eliminate the server somehow, then you win. And they did. Things like IRC and ICQ blew the hell up from using that model.

          We really need to dig that entire concept back up and brush the dust off of it. I wonder if that’s what Matrix is.

          Now if you’ll excuse me I need to go prune some pointless Discord channels. Oh, by the by, fucking nobody uses Slack, or knows what it is. Dudes on the internet all think it’s normal because tech offices seem to use it a lot, the rest of the world has never used Slack. Up until right now I was assuming that Discord and Slack are the same thing, owned by the same company, and Slack is just the “business casual” version of Discord. This doesn’t seem to be true, but that’s how unfamiliar I am with Slack, while being chronically online. There are probably more people around who still remember ICQ than have ever used Slack in their lives.

          I love the Church of the Subgenius reference built into Slack’s name. From what I can tell, nobody who uses that thing actually gets any slack, it actively removes slack from your life and makes boss surveillance really, really easy for the boss, but you must always act as though Big Brother can hear, or you’re fucked. Good work Bob, nice joke. Anyway, I shut up now.

  • sleepmode@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    I bought a keyboard kit recently and to my horror discovered all the “documentation” to build it is on Discord. The creator’s last message was that he was working on other things after losing interest, and was not monitoring it anymore. So all the channels are full of messages asking where he is, what the status is, is he coming back, etc. I had to scroll back through dozens of pages just to find the docs.

    Maybe put up a wiki on GitHub or something? Especially if you don’t want to run a forum or plan on dipping. It’s not that hard.

  • Faresh@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    9 months ago

    Since we are on the topic of disliking Discord, what Matrix clients do you humans use? I tried both Element and Nheko (the latter of which isn’t electron based), and they both felt slow, clunky and unresponsive.

  • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    9 months ago

    I feel like so many people talk about how it’s not searchable or other concerns but for me I don’t really care so much because there’s an even bigger deal breaker which is their license agreement, where you sign away the property rights of anything you post, giving away your entire open source project… This alone should disqualify it for any work of any creative sort. They own things you give them. I would never use it for development because of this.

  • thesmokingman@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    9 months ago

    Discord performance is inversely proportional to the number of servers you’re in. Until Discord addresses this, it’s a shit tool for this use case unless you participate in a tiny number of servers in one facet of your life. Unlike chat tools like Slack that allow you to focus one server or community tools like forums, Lemmy, or VCSaaS which don’t consume resources when you don’t use them, Discord just tanks everything. Since you can’t easily hop in and out (something community tools let you do because, you know, you’re not constantly polling the server), you can’t self regulate.

    Every single gaming community, coding community, project, store, hobby group, friend group, and professional group (study group too) has their own Discord. It’s a goddamn nightmare because Discord does not prioritize basic community functionality. Voice and streaming kick ass, but I need some server management and resource optimization.

  • trymeout@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Discord is the worst. Requires a phone number, does not allow email aliases and logs your chats.

    Matrix and SimpleX is way better

  • dbilitated@aussie.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    9 months ago

    yeah I’ve really noticed it’s hard to find info and therefore use any project that does this.

    and it must suck because anyone new, instead of finding the answer to their question in a forum archive from when it was first asked, has to log in and ask it again.

    whenever I have dumb noob questions on setup and I see a discord link I give up a little.

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      9 months ago

      dude i give up completely, you think im joining a random discord full of a bunch of people i dont know with a culture of who knows what dialect?

      Nah fuck that i’ll just go use some dudes random piece of scrapped together software that’s actually pretty based instead. To that guy who wrote the bash script for flashing windows ISOs under linux. Thank you.

  • aleq@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    IMO Discord is the best platform for this right now, which is unfortunate. The little I’ve tried Matrix has not been very impressive (single chatrooms, slow, bad self-hosting experience IMO), IRC is a bit better (though very dated in many regards, esp. user management) but still doesn’t have the categories/channels that make discord nice. And most other chats are proprietary with discord just being the best one.

    Which one would you like them to use?

    • thesmokingman@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      I can count the number of projects where I wanted immediate feedback from random people on no hands. I do not think there are enough hands in my state to count the number of projects I’ve crawled docs and commentary from search engines. My use case for a community is an asynchronous repository of knowledge and issue tracker. Discord does none of those things.

      • echo64@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        I’ve been around open source for 20+ years and can tell you right now that it don’t work that way. An issue tracker and a wiki is not a community.

        Most older open source communities were built on irl connections and irc, with some mailing lists thrown in. Hell, we even funded conferences just around the software, not to sell a product but just because it’s good for everyone to be talking to each other.

        The issue tracker tracks the status of things, the wiki is generally user focused. It’s not where development happens or thinks get built.

    • cooljacob204@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Other then it being closed garden that isn’t indexable on the web why do you think it’s trash?

      The stuff before it were not good.

      • Piogre314@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        Other than it being closed garden that isn’t indexable on the web

        “Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”

  • janAkali@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    I would accept discord/irc over mailing list. But nothing beats a proper forum website.
    And no, subreddit is not a proper forum.

    • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      For the main project I’m a maintainer on we do have forums too but they’re pretty dead, we mostly just use Discord because that’s what everyone else seems to be using.

      • TechNom (nobody)@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Discord is absolute trash if you’re a user searching for solutions. It simply doesn’t turn up in web searches. Why would you want your users to ask the same questions again and again?

        • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          It just so happens to be where all our users end up anyway so for us it’s been okay for the most part. Having moderator commands for frequently asked questions, and automating frequently asked questions tends to help even more. Discord also seems to work well for projects far larger than ours, ones like RPCS3 etc.

          • TechNom (nobody)@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            After reading the comments on several communities including Lemmy, reddit, YouTube and several others, I don’t get the feeling that FOSS users are as enthusiastic about discord as you portray. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps it’s a restriction that you impose on your users?

            Besides, all the bells and whistles of Discord don’t solve the biggest gripe that I have with it - the searchability and discoverability of questions and answers. Despite the history recording in Discord, it acts essentially as an information black hole. People’s efforts in solving problems are just lost because they can’t be found again.

            And finally, there’s one thing that corporate social media has proven time and again. Eventually all of them pivot for some reason or another. Perhaps they want to monetize the platform on unacceptable terms (like reddit recently). That will happen to discord too some day. They are holding the community content hostage. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that they won’t ever try to make money off it, cutting the community from it.