• renzev@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Huh? Is this a troll post? “slava ukraini” being a fascist slogan isn’t even a tankie take, it’s just a historical fact. Like, who even disagrees with this? It even says so on english-language wikipedia, which is like the most lukewarm non-controversial source out there:

    In April 1941 in German-occupied Kraków, the younger part of the OUN seceded and formed its own organisation, called the OUN-B after its leader Stepan Bandera. The group adopted a fascist-style salute along with calling “Glory to Ukraine!” and responding with “Glory to the Heroes!”

    • Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      After briefly skimming that Wikipedia article, it seems like the phrase/battlecry has undergone multiple iterations over the years, originating as far back as perhaps WWI.

      Could it be the case that fascist nationalists appropriated this aspect of culture to galvanize and accumulate support? Sure. Look at the Groypers with Pepe the Frog in present times.

      That phrase hasn’t always been wielded by fascists, however, and it seems like the larger Ukrainian population have taken back this phrase from the fascists.

      I think the .ml mod definitely had too heavy a hand with the ban here.

    • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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      2 days ago

      Your own Wikipedia article says it was around decades before WWII and Bandera. Should we shun norse mythology too because the Nazis co-opted it for a while before getting their asses kicked?

      • renzev@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Bandera’s followers massacred civilians during WWII. No matter what label you stick on it, the ideologies of these people (and, by extension, the slogans they used as rallying calls) have no place in a fair society.

        • Dasus@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          have no place in a fair society.

          No shit.

          But you shouldn’t conflate them despite them often walking hand in hand.

          A country having nationalist fervor doesn’t necessarily mean it’s in any way fascist. So conflating modern healthy patriotism of the Ukraine to historical fascists is quite clearly wrong — on purpose.

          • renzev@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            despite them often walking hand in hand.

            Yeah that’s the whole issue. You’re telling me these “healthy patriots” could not find a SINGLE thing in the entire history of their country to be proud of apart from a slogan used by fascists?

            Where I live (Netherlands) people often use the term “Polder mentality” to celebrate the people’s historical ability to cooperate despite differences in opinion. This is what “healthy patriotism” looks like. If you instead go out of your way to praise the nation’s “VOC mentality”, people will rightfully look at you weird and maybe even call you out for glorifying slavery. Because an actual patriot would never be proud of slavery.

            If I was a Ukrainian patriot, I would go out of my way to cut any association with the fascist parts of my country’s history, not make it my main slogan.

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              “couldn’t they find something else to chant than [the name of their nation] in this battle where it’s nation against nation”

              Couldn’t Russia just stop invading neighbouring nation-states?

                • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                  2 days ago

                  This whole post is about the Russo-Ukrainian war? You know, a war where Ukraine is defending itself against Russia?

                  Thanks for revealing yourself as a Putlerite, though.

                  • renzev@lemmy.world
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                    2 days ago

                    No??? The post about a particular instance of the Lemmy federated link aggregator software?? What even makes you think I support putin? I see authoritarianism as threat, it’s the main reason why I haven’t moved back to Russia yet and why I’m actively looking to find potential other places to relocate to in case the EU continues its descent into authoritarianism. I can’t even come up with a witty comeback here, I’m genuinely baffled by your train of thought. Though I guess your use of reddit-tier made-up “vocabulary” like “putlerite” proves that “thought” isn’t something that happens in your head very often.