Well, you’re posting about a thread that went down on Hexbear where goat was engaging with us. I’m curious to know what facts and logic were actually provided that the “tankies” rejected.
And you’re posting in a thread that’s not. Your point? I’m not here to pick up goat’s debate. I’m not even talking about that thread. I’m talking about literally every argument that I’ve ever personally had with a tankie, and I’m not going to summarize them all for you.
Also, you can hardly blame him for engaging with you on a post that literally said “Gee, I wish someone who isn’t a tankie would engage with us.” And it looks like y’all didn’t even get to the debate part, because you just told him to fuck off as soon as he said he would.
We did get to the debate part, you can click the link and see how it went down. Goat was asked to provide a defense for points they made stating that Palestine ought to resist only by adopting Western liberal ideals, and that resistance by military means is illegitimate. They refused to actually elaborate on that point.
When prompted on forming revolutionary organizations in the United States, goat claimed that such an effort is useless because Americans will never amount to anything because they are too distracted.
I never argued for any of my points because I didn’t see why I should bother to argue them, it wouldn’t convince any tankie and hearing the same slogans from the same redsails sources and talking points won’t do much to convince me (perhaps if it was from something more reputable or argued in favour of individual freedoms, such as the workers) – I don’t really bother with any argument unless there’s a baseline we can fall back on, which I offered.
Rape is also not resistance, it’s predation, it’s poison. Do you think the civil rights movement succeeded with raping their oppressors? No. They primarily used non-violence – And if you’re going to argue that violence was what succeeded, know that racists make the same arguments.
And I stand by what I said on the US populace, they are too cowardly, and so are Tankies, as evidently displayed.
don’t rape, don’t carry out terrorism on innocent civilians
The right way was using the internet and global attention, which Palestine was doing, raising awareness of how they are suffering and gaining sympathy for it. They should’ve adopted more Western ideals, or maybe liberalism, encourage foreigners to come and stay. The West Bank and Gaza near Rafah were also doing decently well in terms of growth, labelling itself as a trendy tourist destination.
Unfortunately, Hamas decided that raping women and killing innocent civilians was a better method of resistance, even going so far as to film themselves carrying out the massacre and taking hostages – Which incurred the Israeli military and ended up with Gaza being turned to rubble. Sure, people are much more aware of Palestine now, but only the most radical of “progressives” think Israel can be defeated and that Palestine can do no wrong. These people are vocal minorities and hold no power.
The whole relationship between Israel and the US isn’t as buddy-buddy as people think it is. Israel previously attacked US forces and regularly threatens US personnel. No clue what goes on behind the scenes, but clearly Israel has something major on the US, or the US sees Israel as a base for Middle-East operations and considers the chaos that comes with it as a necessary sacrifice. Or maybe it’s both, or maybe it’s neither.
I’d say rather than Western ideals, they should support the human rights some Western ideals are based on. My biggest contentions with Islamist regimes are women’s and queer rights. Sure acceptance of queer people is a long road for such societies, but you can make sure that the government doesn’t persecute them and that the government even enforces non-discrimination regulations.
You don’t see why saying this about Gaza is patently absurd? They don’t have a functioning government. The whole place is nothing but rubble and families trying to find the bodies of their loved ones buried underneath that rubble. They’ve been subjected to 2 years of constant aerial bombardment, as if the previous decades of occupation, no access to clean water or any economic contact with the rest of the world wasn’t bad enough. It just strikes me as something one can only say if they don’t know anything about the situation at hand, and they only know that Gaza is a city and Palestine is a country.
Like seriously, they live in a concentration camp. Would you say anything like this about the inmates of Auschwitz? Oh no, some of them are misogynists! Oh no, some of them have backwards social views on queer people! Can you do something about the gas chambers first before you deal with those topics, though?
Which facts and logic were provided?
In which context? I’m not gonna summarize every argument I’ve ever had with a tankie for you. Be reasonable.
Well, you’re posting about a thread that went down on Hexbear where goat was engaging with us. I’m curious to know what facts and logic were actually provided that the “tankies” rejected.
And you’re posting in a thread that’s not. Your point? I’m not here to pick up goat’s debate. I’m not even talking about that thread. I’m talking about literally every argument that I’ve ever personally had with a tankie, and I’m not going to summarize them all for you.
Also, you can hardly blame him for engaging with you on a post that literally said “Gee, I wish someone who isn’t a tankie would engage with us.” And it looks like y’all didn’t even get to the debate part, because you just told him to fuck off as soon as he said he would.
We did get to the debate part, you can click the link and see how it went down. Goat was asked to provide a defense for points they made stating that Palestine ought to resist only by adopting Western liberal ideals, and that resistance by military means is illegitimate. They refused to actually elaborate on that point.
When prompted on forming revolutionary organizations in the United States, goat claimed that such an effort is useless because Americans will never amount to anything because they are too distracted.
That wasn’t a debate at all lol
I never argued for any of my points because I didn’t see why I should bother to argue them, it wouldn’t convince any tankie and hearing the same slogans from the same redsails sources and talking points won’t do much to convince me (perhaps if it was from something more reputable or argued in favour of individual freedoms, such as the workers) – I don’t really bother with any argument unless there’s a baseline we can fall back on, which I offered.
Rape is also not resistance, it’s predation, it’s poison. Do you think the civil rights movement succeeded with raping their oppressors? No. They primarily used non-violence – And if you’re going to argue that violence was what succeeded, know that racists make the same arguments.
And I stand by what I said on the US populace, they are too cowardly, and so are Tankies, as evidently displayed.
When universal human rights are denounced as “Western liberal ideals”, we know that you have no interest in an actual debate.
Those were Goat’s words. Goat said the following:
I’d say rather than Western ideals, they should support the human rights some Western ideals are based on. My biggest contentions with Islamist regimes are women’s and queer rights. Sure acceptance of queer people is a long road for such societies, but you can make sure that the government doesn’t persecute them and that the government even enforces non-discrimination regulations.
I considered saying human rights, but Israel doesn’t give a shit about those and seemingly no other power does either.
You don’t see why saying this about Gaza is patently absurd? They don’t have a functioning government. The whole place is nothing but rubble and families trying to find the bodies of their loved ones buried underneath that rubble. They’ve been subjected to 2 years of constant aerial bombardment, as if the previous decades of occupation, no access to clean water or any economic contact with the rest of the world wasn’t bad enough. It just strikes me as something one can only say if they don’t know anything about the situation at hand, and they only know that Gaza is a city and Palestine is a country.
Like seriously, they live in a concentration camp. Would you say anything like this about the inmates of Auschwitz? Oh no, some of them are misogynists! Oh no, some of them have backwards social views on queer people! Can you do something about the gas chambers first before you deal with those topics, though?
(This was removed by automod, I’ve gone ahead and restored the comment)