Translation: Write me a new religion and convince me my current religion is crap. Anything less and you’re wasting your breath.
No thank you.
Justified ban
Immediately going for their point 3 in their reply. It couldn’t be any funnier.
Most of their grievances with THE LIBS are projections
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They’re just like maga, “Debate me bro.” And then they proceed to reject all the facts and logic that you provide, while getting upset when you dismiss the alternative “facts” that they make up.
Like, what is this? “Argues without insulting us” AND “Argues without tone policing”? So, what, tankies want to be the only ones who can tone police and insult their counterparts in an argument?
Like, pick one or the other and apply the same rules to both sides. Ideally neither side throws insults, and either side can tone police. But don’t say “we can do both, and you can do neither.” That’s the same “rules for thee, not for me” rhetoric that all authoritarians use, whether on the left or on the right.
Tankies are just covert fascists. Prove me wrong.
thats why i offered the baseline lol
There’s no rationally debating them. It’s like trying to rationally debate maga. They’ll ignore everything you say and make up scenarios that would make you the clear loser, and then bludgeon the strawman to death with insults and repeat themselves over and over no matter how many times you point out how irrational they’re being…
“What is not reasoned in, cannot be reasoned out.”
Something all too common with extremists. It’s fruitless to argue with facts and logic™ since they live in a different reality.
The only way to get through to them is playing therapist and figuring out their emotions and getting them to question themselves. Questions like, why does China have a stock exchange? Why can’t you be gay in Russia? Why did Lenin say don’t let Stalin take control? That’s why they band together so much and silence all opposition that ask questions, they can’t risk thinking inwards. They need to affirm each other, while non-extremists don’t need to, since reality is on their side.
I agree mostly with that but i also, personally, need to keep on top of adequately questioning my own reasoning.
Just because i think reality is on my side doesn’t make it automatically true, I’m not immune to propaganda or fallacious logic.
Even worse (for me personally) is the trap of assuming my subjective (and relatively well reasoned ) correctness in other conversations carries over in to whatever conversation I’m having right now.
A sense of conversational and intellectual superiority can be an insidious path to closed mind.
Yeah, all extremists do that. It’s such a shame.
Fortunately Tankies are extremely passive and weak, they’re not at all like MAGA, who are full-blown fascists.
Unfortunately tankies haven’t realized that yet. They still think they have a chance in hell of waging a successful revolution 🙄
I don’t think they’re quite fascist because of the economic difficreneces and social wellbeing policies.
But they are undoubtedly both authoritarian, and that’s pretty much the biggest problem because it practically makes the two identical.
Tankies are sometimes called red fash since they argue in support of fascism as opposed to actually caring for the people. I mentioned it before, Tankies don’t operate on the basis of parties or workers. They are authoritarians, so when they mean CCP, they mean Xi. When they mean Russia, they mean Putin. That’s why if you explore their spaces and engage with them, they will almost never actually argue for the workers or people
They love their “strong” leaders and deify them – I mean, really, who has photos of a dead dictator in their room? What is that?
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If you take their theory at face value, correct. If you observe their attitudes and actions, you see that they don’t really care about implementing those theories. They only discuss them to give themselves a veneer of moral superiority.
Stalin didn’t lift the proletariat out of poverty; he merely starved and murdered all the peasants who didn’t join his party. He didn’t liberate the masses, he implemented a highly oppressive surveillance/police state.
The average anarchist will be the first to try to bully someone into complying with their preferred systems of social order. They only want there to be no government so that nothing can stop them from forcing everyone else to conform to their will.
That’s what I mean by “covert” fascist. Nominally leftist, practically not.
I don’t like a lot of the self-proclaimed anarchists for that specific reason. They give the rest of us a really bad look. They miss the whole point of being anti-authoritarian, anti-heirchical, anti-coercisive, and anti-capitalist.
I understand why they are that way, I’m like 99% sure it’s a neurodivergent thing (black-and-white thinking, rejection of authority, failure to recognize social norms, we pretty much all do it to some degree, and some are much more obvious than others).
Like a doctor is an authority on health. Why? Because they earned it. They put their livelihood on the line by licensure and risk to avoid malprat. Governments where only a select few are voted for and the rest of the representation is all because of Republic stances rather than democratic ones are not deserving of authority.
Also, it might be that the anarchists you have met are not anarchists at all. It sounds much more like the communists I know.
Hey, probably don’t blame it 99% on neurodivergence. I’m autistic, and why I do reject authority and struggle with social norms, I don’t see people and views in black and white.
it might be that the anarchists you have met are not anarchists at all. It sounds much more like the communists I know.
I can think of one in particular, a very arrogant and loud-mouthed, self-proclaimed anarchist, who if he had his way would force everyone to be vegan.
I understand animal rights, and I myself have been vegetarian for a few years. But if he’s truly an anarchist, then how does he expect to enforce veganism on everyone? Just seems cognitively dissonant…
For that matter, how do anarchists plan to stop racists and homophobes from doing racist and homophobic things? It just seems short-sighted, especially from people who profess to be vulnerable minorities. You’d think they would at least want a government that protects them and ensures their equal rights, no?
When you encounter this anarchist, I implore you to question them on how China treats animals. Very curious to see what will happen.
Just some inarticulate posturing and vague implications that I don’t know what I’m talking about, probably.
Like when someone else wore a PLA hat and I asked him how many civilians died in the great leap forward, clearly the reason he didn’t have an answer was because I was the ignorant one. “Oh, you wanna talk to me about the great leap forward?” Acting all insulted
That’s probably how it will go.
I think it’s telling that they can’t admit their ideology has faults or has made mistakes. It’ll never get anywhere.
Yeah as soon as the word “force” comes into play, he’s not an anarchist.
A lot of anarchy depends on the concept of equity. If someone in particular is against the equity of his peers, then that individual would likely be kicked out of the collective for violating that tenet.
More than likely, the racist/homophobic individual was never allowed to join the group. If that racist/homophobe was a child raised in the anarchist society and held these views as an adult, then the real question becomes why did that individual form those beliefs if they were intolerable to the group. Action needs to be taken there.
Isn’t that liberalism?
No, though some aspects are shared.
Liberalism has very different views in terms of economics.
I don’t think he ever said “force” explicitly, but he seemed to be in favor of bullying anyone who didn’t agree with him, so what’s the difference?
Also, what would anarchists do if there’s a whole group of racist homophobes? What if the racist homophobes outnumber the anarchist commune? How is ostracizing them going to address that?
We don’t need to imagine how a child raised in an anarchist society could grow up to be racist; we already live in a world where racists exist and there’s no practical way of bringing about an abrupt halt in that generational pattern. Describing a society that has already been anarchic for generations is merely an abstraction.
If the group of racist homophobic people outnumber us, how did we form our collective? They weren’t anarchist to begin with. They aren’t entitled to our resources.
Like a doctor is an authority on health. Why? Because they earned it.
If I were to design a novel political system, there would be privileged places for PhD holders. Political philosophy, political science, history, sociology, etc. I’m not quite certain of the mechanism of selection, whether they’re elected or appointed or something else. Perhaps there would be a direct pipeline from university faculties to the upper-echelons of government. Enough to fill a cabinet with a representative from each department, at least. The departments and agencies would be run by people who spent their lives gaining expertise in their respective fields.
Maybe the public could still elect a head of state, but they would have a more ceremonial role as a figurehead (like the President of Ireland). And the chief of state would be a prime minister. The legislative branch would be parliamentary, with proportional representation.
I say this because, I recognize that the current system in the US is ass. It had some good ideas, for an early iteration of a democratic-republic, but it’s been a few centuries of learning and some things could certainly be done better.
But just because this system is ass, doesn’t mean all systems are inherently ass. There has to be some means of organizing society to keep the gears turning and preventing everything from breaking down into disorder and chaos.
For the record, I’m totally in favor of the workers seizing the means of production, but it doesn’t have to be done violently. If the ultimate outcome is worker’s unions taking over in place of boards of investors, and running former corporations as co-operative enterprises where workers keep most of the value of their labor, and the rest goes to public coffers to fund social programs and civic infrastructure that benefit everybody; if that’s the goal, then it can be done without shedding a drop of blood. Only, the right people need to be in power to make that happen.
Hence why I mention the communist thing.
Anarchy and communism have a LOT of overlap.
Most anarchists are anarcho-communists. I mean anarcho-capitalists exist but those are just oligarchs in favor of technofeudalism
Anarcho-capitalism isn’t remotely anarchy. It’s fuedalism full stop.
Equating anarchists to fascists is genuinely in the top five most stupid fucking political takes I have ever heard in my life. What the fuck do you think anarchists want force on you?
“Fuck these anarchists, they want to get rid of hierarchy and government so I won’t have a boot to suck the polish off of.” Is what you fucking sound like. The comm is for shitting on tankies. Anarchists are not tankies. Tankie does not mean leftist, it means authoritarian communist.
Anarchists aren’t tankies, no. But a shocking amount of them, on Lemmy at least, cosy up with Tankies and even argue in favour of authoritarian states, or defend them. From my experience, the average anarchist hates the liberal more than the tankie, despite the latter being in direct opposition to their principles.
Yes, and I actively distance myself from them. Its why I moved from dbzer0 to quokk.au and from Lemmy to Piefed. Anarchists who cosy up to MLs are naive and fail to learn from a hundred years of history. Anarchism is just as incompatible with statism and authority as it is with capitalism. That is not to say I wont work with liberals and marxists, just that I would never trust them.
that’s actually really respectful to your ideals.
why do you think so many anarchists, like those from dbzer0, cosy up to tankies?
Its scary fighting back. You want allies, and many of them so the odds dont feel so impossible. Its hard not to fall into the thinking that capitalism is the bigger threat, so we should work together against the common enemy. “We’ll figure out which communism is best after the revolution” is what I often hear. Issue is, looking at history, we get backstabbed before we get to see the end of the revolution. In the end though, its hard not to end up trusting those you spend time working with.
Way to not even read anything I said, but rather make a series of assumptions about me based on what you thought would be easiest to knock down. Tankies are the kings of strawmen.
I said tankies are covert fascists. I never called anarchists tankies. I said they’re bullies. And you’re only proving my point.
I don’t suck any boots, I don’t know what world you’re living in if you have to do that every day but it’s not the world I’m living in. Anarchists want to get rid of government because they want to be the bullies and get their boots sucked for a change, and they make that clear by their behavior. That’s not any better than the system we currently have.
Also, tankies generally consider themselves leftist. Which is the argument for not saying they’re overt fascists. But I didn’t call them overt fascists, I called them covert fascists; meaning they use a veneer of leftist ideology to cover the fact that they’re authoritarian and generally behave like fascists.
And before you put more words in my mouth, I never said all leftists are tankies. If you have an ounce of intelligence then you’ll know that all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples.
I like the idea of anarchism, but it’ll only be possible if the state and all those who recall it were completely wiped out. Come on nuclear armageddon, come on nuclear armageddon!
There will never be a time where principled anarchists are not also called “tankies” by liberals. If you believe in the use of revolutionary violence and the defense of a revolution, you will be called a “tankie.”
But you guys can’t handle violence despite how much you larp on about it.
Genuinely would rather be called anarkiddie lmao. You know what they say, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
If you’re going around making people bleed for being liberal, then you’re a fascist.
wonderfully said
I hear this phrase a lot, and I’m curious to hear what you think it means
To me it means liberals will side with fascists when push comes to shove. I wont fail to recognize that there are examples of liberals resisting fascism, but you also have many more instances where they enable, defend, or outright join fascists. Hitler drew a lot of inspiration from the US’s Jim Crow laws, and Hitler was chosen as New York Times Person of the year. The social democrats of Weimar Germany used proto-fascist to eradicate a communist revolution. The Weimar Republic is who put Hitler in power. The Kingdom of Italy as well allowed Mussolini into power. You also have situations like Pinochet and Franco. Pinochet being put into power by the US, and Franco’s fascist government being left untouched and allowed to exist.
summed up beautifully.
every commie/anarchist I know IRL, and I’ve known quite a few, are HUGE bullies/assholes, and they tend to only be friends with people they have control over or can intimidate into submission to them. They HATE people who are independent of their mentality and character assassinate them.
It’s the typical use of high minded ideals to justify their shitty and hypocritical personal behavior.
Exactly! I’m sorry a tankie got butthurt and downvoted you.
That’s really more of what I’ve seen in the communist communities rather than anarchists.
But they too have a tendency of being all or nothing.
The ones who demand “social order” truly aren’t anarchist anyway. The whole point of anarchy is to approach an egalitarian community that rejects the idea of unearned authority.
Genuinely curious. How do true anarchists propose to prevent crime syndicates from gaining power and becoming a de facto government, committing extortion, racketeering, and human trafficking?
Or are they just running on the assumption that after the collapse of society, people’s appetites for wealth, power, and influence will simply evaporate?
Anarchism is a philosophy, not a means of governing.
But any anarchist would tell you that all actions have consequences. In one scenario - where human trafficking is discovered, a group of anarchists might play Dredd to bring justice to the syndicate. That group would then face consequences and be subject to investigation by the community. It could even look like a trial.
What if the human traffickers are more powerful than them? Have more resources, firepower, etc.?
Also, that system sounds a lot like vigilantism. How is there any guarantee that every commune will use that power responsibly and not abuse it? What’s stopping the most powerful communes from taking over and punishing dissenters, or any smaller communes that won’t submit to them?
To me, it just seems to set the stage for a return to neofeudalism. The most powerful communes become the barons, and smaller communes become vassals. Over time, I don’t see it turning out any other way. The system isn’t stable.
Isn’t it better to have an institution that protects against that, a system governed by rule of law to prevent abuses of authority?
I’m aware that the current systems have done a bad job of that, but humans are capable of learning and improving. And civilization has come a long way since the time of kings and empires; it would be a shame to throw out all that progress just because we haven’t got it perfectly right quite yet.
So the group of dredd anarchists create a government?
they don’t. they, like communists, tend to ignore human nature and think their ideal society will have no scarcity or struggle.
they basically ignore human psychology and social behavior
Why do you reckon that is? Naivety?
That’s concerning. And yet they call anyone a fascist who doesn’t support their cause. Tsk tsk. Projection at its finest.
Wonderful graphs, thank you. But how can you ensure that the state, which now has unopposed power, didn’t simply lie about how much they have? Personally I find it telling that those in state power never walk the streets of the peasants or live in the same houses, no, they have their palaces and mansions, and you’re telling me there’s income equality there?
Not convinced.
Oh, I’m sure all that income equality was so beneficial to all the victims who died in the holodomor and other atrocities committed by the soviet union.
Also, try using a color scheme that doesn’t burn the eyes. I’m not giving myself a migraine just so you can lick soviet boots.
By the way, I’m not against socialism; I’m against tankies. You would know the difference if you were well-versed in “theory,” wouldn’t you?
Which facts and logic were provided?
In which context? I’m not gonna summarize every argument I’ve ever had with a tankie for you. Be reasonable.
Well, you’re posting about a thread that went down on Hexbear where goat was engaging with us. I’m curious to know what facts and logic were actually provided that the “tankies” rejected.
And you’re posting in a thread that’s not. Your point? I’m not here to pick up goat’s debate. I’m not even talking about that thread. I’m talking about literally every argument that I’ve ever personally had with a tankie, and I’m not going to summarize them all for you.
Also, you can hardly blame him for engaging with you on a post that literally said “Gee, I wish someone who isn’t a tankie would engage with us.” And it looks like y’all didn’t even get to the debate part, because you just told him to fuck off as soon as he said he would.
We did get to the debate part, you can click the link and see how it went down. Goat was asked to provide a defense for points they made stating that Palestine ought to resist only by adopting Western liberal ideals, and that resistance by military means is illegitimate. They refused to actually elaborate on that point.
When prompted on forming revolutionary organizations in the United States, goat claimed that such an effort is useless because Americans will never amount to anything because they are too distracted.
That wasn’t a debate at all lol
I never argued for any of my points because I didn’t see why I should bother to argue them, it wouldn’t convince any tankie and hearing the same slogans from the same redsails sources and talking points won’t do much to convince me (perhaps if it was from something more reputable or argued in favour of individual freedoms, such as the workers) – I don’t really bother with any argument unless there’s a baseline we can fall back on, which I offered.
Rape is also not resistance, it’s predation, it’s poison. Do you think the civil rights movement succeeded with raping their oppressors? No. They primarily used non-violence – And if you’re going to argue that violence was what succeeded, know that racists make the same arguments.
And I stand by what I said on the US populace, they are too cowardly, and so are Tankies, as evidently displayed.
When universal human rights are denounced as “Western liberal ideals”, we know that you have no interest in an actual debate.
Those were Goat’s words. Goat said the following:
don’t rape, don’t carry out terrorism on innocent civilians
The right way was using the internet and global attention, which Palestine was doing, raising awareness of how they are suffering and gaining sympathy for it. They should’ve adopted more Western ideals, or maybe liberalism, encourage foreigners to come and stay. The West Bank and Gaza near Rafah were also doing decently well in terms of growth, labelling itself as a trendy tourist destination.
Unfortunately, Hamas decided that raping women and killing innocent civilians was a better method of resistance, even going so far as to film themselves carrying out the massacre and taking hostages – Which incurred the Israeli military and ended up with Gaza being turned to rubble. Sure, people are much more aware of Palestine now, but only the most radical of “progressives” think Israel can be defeated and that Palestine can do no wrong. These people are vocal minorities and hold no power.
The whole relationship between Israel and the US isn’t as buddy-buddy as people think it is. Israel previously attacked US forces and regularly threatens US personnel. No clue what goes on behind the scenes, but clearly Israel has something major on the US, or the US sees Israel as a base for Middle-East operations and considers the chaos that comes with it as a necessary sacrifice. Or maybe it’s both, or maybe it’s neither.
(This was removed by automod, I’ve gone ahead and restored the comment)
They want us to debate with them but they ban us when they lose. Typical ML getting rid of people who become dangerous to their belief in their worldview.
As opposed to other spaces, where they don’t ban you.
You tripped the spam prevention bot, which is why you got booted. If you check modlog, I rarely ban users permanently unless they’re trolling.
Even then, I don’t need to explain any ban or justify it when you ban first.
The fact you weren’t banned by goat for ban evasion shows that the ban was a false positive by the automod. Ask goat to unban your other account.
It’s an instance ban, can’t do anything about that. If they posted here with their main alt account it’ll be allowed.
The main alt was banned by the automod too though.
Nah, I mean the main alt they use to regularly post in non-tankie threads, not a new account
What’s it called?
i dont know lol thats why im asking them to use it instead
Goat wasn’t banned for winning a debate. Goat was banned for Zionism.
Can you link the removed post? Because in his other posts I can’t recognize said assumed Zionism.
The Zionism in question is with regards to what goat is defending (really, they’re not defending it outright because it appears they were afraid of getting banned). I made a thread about it separately, https://lemmy.ml/post/41587368?scrollToComments=true
Essentially what goat is saying is that Palestinians are not allowed to resist Israel militarily, only by cultural means. This is particularly heinous because Palestinians have been using peaceful means to resist Israel since the Nakba. That’s what BDS is, that’s what the 2018 March of Return was. Palestinians have made tons of efforts to peacefully assert their human rights because they generally don’t even have much to fight with, anyway. They don’t have a state, they don’t have modern military capabilities beyond the things they’re capable of refurbishing after the IDF drops hardware in Gaza, and they’re cut off from their allies by the Israeli blockade around Gaza. What a lot of Zionists don’t understand is that the Palestinian Resistance is the last resort of Palestine because they are being exterminated.
A lot of goat’s argument centered on claims of sexual violence committed against women during October 7th. This is a false narrative that Hamas ordered mass sexual assault, and Israel never presented serious evidence of this. This is the position of the scholars of this conflict, too, it’s generally regarded that there’s no evidence that any mass rape took place that day. That’s why I was saying this was nothing more than Hasbara (i.e. official Israeli propaganda) and why they got banned so quickly.
Also I think you are assuming a bit much of goat’s intentions and meanings. He doesn’t deny that Palestine has a right to defend itself. He is saying that Hamas killing civilians is not a legitimate form of self-defense. Much like the IDF killing civilians must be condemned. It is rather goat critiquing Hamas’ actions.
Well Goat is specifically saying that Hamas ought to use the internet instead of something, right? I can understand criticizing the murder of civilians during October 7th. However, to this day it’s not known how many civilians Hamas killed in their operation. The figure of 1200 dead Israelis has never been broken down into military and civilian casualties. Israel has also admitted there was massive amounts of friendly fire. So even condemning Hamas for “killing innocent civilians” is questionable; after all, how could Hamas actually carry out a military operation against Israel without killing civilians, when Israel has always made strategic use of the combination of the civilian population as settler colonialists, and the military apparatus that can protect them while maintaining a veneer of legality?
The documentary No Other Land did a very good job of showing that latter point, by the way. In Israel the settlers and the military act hand in hand. If you want to do a military operation against them, it’s never going to be fully possible to be discriminate, even if it’s desirable to have a legitimate resistance movement.
No, I said that Palestinians should use social media (which they are—that’s good!), enlighten the rest of the world about their conditions, interact more with the rest of the world, and encourage people to come and visit, which is a very liberal approach. Whether or not you dislike liberalism, you have to cater for it as liberalism is the majority. I argued for tourism as that’s the only possible way for Palestine to generate income and allow foreigners to experience Palestine, considering how little land they have, and how often Israel moves on said land.
The fact that you immediately consider that Hamas and Palestinians are the same is grossly telling about your honesty and your position in the conflict. Hamas silences and controls Palestinians from speaking or acting out against them. Here’s a clip from the BBC, which managed to bypass security, showing a grieving mother curse Hamas over the loss of her son, and the men quickly silence her, putting their hands over her mouth.
There are many other clips and examples of Hamas oppressing dissenting Palestinians, but you won’t care for that, so I won’t bother.
Your sources are also shit and unconvincing. I personally aim for sources that are non-biased and, in the case of I/P, very high in their factual reporting.
There were at least several hundred civilian casualties. Don’t try to play that game. If there were that many soldiers among the dead, they wouldn’t have gotten that far. Additionally a huge portion of the dead were at the techno festival and at the kibbutzim.
I don’t agree with Israel’s actions against Palestinians and them trying to act like many civilian victims were terrorists. You shouldn’t drop to that level though. We are better than that. Don’t try to justify crimes against humanity, regardless who it is.
Additionally a huge portion of the dead were at the techno festival and at the kibbutzim.
That’s right, but that’s also where the friendly fire took place, according to Asa Winstanley’s article that I linked.
Look, all in all it’s probably true that Hamas murdered several hundred civilians that day regardless. But I also don’t think there’s a viable way for a paramilitary group based in Gaza to do an uprising against Israel that doesn’t end with several hundred civilians dead, as I explained, because Israel is a settler-colony and the use of settlers as the tip of the spear of the Israeli effort to settle Palestine is a central part of the project.
Moral comparisons between the actions Israel and Palestine take are always apples to oranges. You simply can’t equate violence against the oppressed to violence against the oppressor. A future without violence against anyone is what the oppressed are attempting to build by defending themselves against their oppressors, after all, but you can’t defend yourself without violence.
This is what I found on the topic of r*pe on Oct. 7. https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/questions-and-answers-hamas-led-armed-groups-october-7-2023-assault-israel#_Toc171593941%3A~%3Atext=Gender-Based+Violence-%2CWhat+were+the+main+Human+Rights+Watch+findings+regarding+sexual+and+gender-based+violence+on+October+7%3F%2C-The+extent+to
You can say rape here
Thank you for a source.
Human Rights Watch was not able to gather verifiable information through interviews with survivors of or witnesses to rape during the assault on October 7, and there is only one public account reportedly from such a survivor.
Read further. Other investigators found at least one survivor of sexual assault and at least three witnesses to gang r*pe.
I am not saying you or goat are right. Sexual assault did happen, but it is uncertain if it was en masse due to the lack of testimony and whether anyone among the dead are victims of SA.
Those who interviewed the witnesses:
concluded that there were “reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the October 7 attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations.”
There wasn’t necessarily 3 separate occasions of gang rpe, there were at least 3 locations where either rpe or gang r*pe occured. Later on they state that it was unclear that any of this sexual violence was planned at all,
Available evidence did not permit Human Rights Watch to draw conclusions regarding the specific identity of those who committed crimes involving sexual and gender-based, or whether these crimes were planned by the Palestinian armed groups who ordered the attacks.
My honest assessment here is that it’s unclear how much Hamas is culpable for this. I’d encourage you to check out Norm Finkelstein’s analysis of this report and others from his interview with Robinson Erhardt. I can fully understand if you want to err on the side of caution and say that this is condemnable in the absence of some evidence that it was only the actions of individual Hamas fighters disobeying orders.
One would almost think this a joke screenshot.
sometimes i consider if it’s just a massive troll, but then i wander into their chatrooms and it’s just nonstop bitching and moaning lol
must be tiring being a keyboard warrior fighting against capitalism and fascism by posting memes
As opposed to the keyboard warrior fighting in favor of those things?
See, that’s where you guys keep getting caught up, which I brought up in the slop thread. You’re so ingrained with US propaganda and indoctrination that you can’t possibly fathom anything that isn’t tribal or campist. You can say both things are bad. Being in opposition against one thing, such as me opposing authoritarianism, doesn’t automatically make me encouraging of capitalism or fascism (as if fascism and authoritarianism are opposites lol)
If you think that means I’m saying both sides should get along or that you should be centrist, then that shows how deep this indoctrination can be. Both can be bad. You don’t have to take any label or side of anything.
got banned for pointing out that they can’t pull a revolution when they can’t even handle words like… GASP…
idiot
Considering two people followed up to this comment by referencing the intellectually disabled, that may be one of the tankies actually stronger points.
As someone who’s autistic, I find it more ableist if you assume that idiot and stupid and any other variations upon automatically means intellectual disability.
It’s like, really? That’s where your mind goes when you hear stupid? It’s telling on your own perspective and I challenge you on that. Say idiot, say stupid, say dumb, since that’s not the intellectually disabled or what we go by.
Mod accidentally revealed his IQ of 80
Room temp IQ but can’t afford the heating bill.
Goat’s just lying here though, they got banned because of what happened in this thread:
Hmmm… some convincing evidence. Guess there is only one way to resolve this:
goat, what’s your stance on palestine?
Israel should leave it alone, and it should leave Israel alone. They both have the right to exist.
Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is needlessly cruel.
Hamas is evil and a terrorist force that raped and massacred innocents, it also regularly silences Palestinian voices as well. Neighbouring countries like Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt should do more to help the Palestinians.
My opinion on I/P is the same as any other conflict on the other side of the world, my country is so far removed from the conflict that there’s nothing we can do except send strongly worded letters. I’m rather nihilistic that they’ll ever find peace, considering the region has been in a state of perpetual war for thousands of years.
i also have some cringe ideas for peace if you want to hear them
I always suspected the tankies may have been wrong
For Tankies anyone who doesn’t believe that Israel should face complete and utter destruction are zionists.
That’s not why you were banned. You were banned for Zionism because you were providing a non-defense for your stance that the correct thing for Palestinians to do is not resist genocide.
https://reddthat.com/post/58007592/24067404
That’s the thread where goat got banned.
Don’t rape people, it’s as easy as that
These aren’t anonymous users or strangers to each other in the slightest.
I mean you’re like their Cowbee.
Cowbee actually defends his arguments and isn’t afraid to say them when he’s in communities that disagree with him
Here’s goat doing the exact opposite: https://reddthat.com/post/58007592/24065167
Cowbee uses numerous fallacies, biased sources and politician rhetoric by deliberately avoiding strong points and resorting to Mott and Baileys when backed into a corner. He ends up winning the ‘rhetoric’ war rather than the factual one because that’s really all he can afford
I honestly just made the comparison from a perception point of view. Unlike Cowbee who sugar coats and inflates his arguments just to pretend that he can be swayed. He just just overwhelms anyone who tries to point out his lies. Goat on the other hand can be swayed and is honest. He Doesn’t try to overwhelm you, can be short and concise when necessary.
I have infinitely more respect towards a person who sometimes can lose it rather than propaganda mouthpiece who writes so much that he contradicts himself frequently enough to have a schizophrenic debate with himself.
This does seem like you had some kind of history of interaction with them, so you wouldn’t just be anyone to them.
If you aren’t just any random person offering them to talk, you must have known that your personal relationship is loaded with a preexisting emotional sentiment.
I would assume that you already knew exactly how they would respond and only made your offer intending to post the response here.
This is a perfect example of acting in bad faith imo.
funnily enough i’ve only interacted with hexbear one other time and that was then they federated with the entirety of Lemmy as a way to troll. Unfortunately for them they didn’t consider that meant anyone could venture into hexbear. hexbear ended up defederating from all of lemmy within 24 hours. it was a humiliating defeat for them
my relationship with hexbear is one of their own circlejerking, they didn’t even know I agreed with them on the US. They also don’t know any of my views.
true i expected to be banned and i did predict this sort of response. thats why i offered in good faith a baseline of stuff we agree on. Regardless, it’s telling that you’re not calling them bad faith for knowingly making a bait post asking people to come talk with them, which will get anyone who actually engages with them banned
would it also not be further in bad faith if I were to use a different identity? that seems dishonest, no? and why is it on me if they can’t control their emotions? i’ve had them harass me nonstop, attempt to dox me multiple times, threaten to kill me numerous times, create fake nudes and regularly spread false information about me, but I never get volatile, i’m a very relaxed goat
funnily enough i’ve only interacted with hexbear one other time and that was then they federated with the entirety of Lemmy as a way to troll. Unfortunately for them they didn’t consider that meant anyone could venture into hexbear. hexbear ended up defederating from all of lemmy within 24 hours. it was a humiliating defeat for them
This is blatant revisionism.
Hexbear attempted to federate with the rest of Lemmy but some of the largest instances such as lemmy.world and lemmy.blahaj.zone defederated from us first. Lemmy.world in particular famously pre-emptively defederated us before ever being federated, as documented in this thread (where they also state that defederation should always be considered as a last resort, you know, pre-emptively defederating Hexbear as a last resort). We were federated with lemmy.blahaj.zone for longer but once they took in a huge number of refugees from reddit /r/196 their largest comm became a lifeboat comm for that subreddit, and they were very unhappy with us; this eventually devolved into a conflict where Ada, their lead admin, decided to defederate Hexbear as a way to appease the moderator of 196. Hexbear generally has a conciliatory attitude towards blahaj to this day and many of our trans users would like to refederate eventually, but this hasn’t happened yet.
Generally, Hexbear likes being federated with more instances because it allows us to spread propaganda more. That’s the incentive in place and we like doing it. Other instances are the ones who generally don’t like receiving tons of people like myself who are very argumentative and post giant walls of text.
Hexbear remains federated with other big instances like SDF, reddthat, .ml (which you might call part of the tankie troika), and lemm.ee before it went down. We get wanderers from there all the time and we play nice with them.
(I didn’t ban you, you tripped the spam prevention bot. You can contact the admins and they’ll undo it)
Hexbear was the first one to defederate, not the other way around. Other instances were considering about going through with defederation, but Hexbear decided to make the call for them, partly because as I mentioned, Tankies such as yourself couldn’t handle the wave of dissent in your safespaces.
If you know of the admins of blahaj, they’ve made it very clear they do not want their instance or their identity used as political fuel, which you are doing right now. I used to do the same until they politely explained that they don’t like it, and I apologised and stopped. Perhaps that’s one of the reasons you’re still defederated, since you use identity as a weapon without actually caring for the rights of the identity. For example, you don’t care about LGBTQ rights in Russia, Iran or China, all of which make same-sex marriage illegal, instead you defend these states. Why would an LGBTQ instance ever federate with that?
If you truly enjoyed being federated, then why was Hexbear always the first to defederate?
And you most certainly don’t play nice. You told me to fuck off and then banned me lol
