most happy and healthy kids have a unique desire to learn and trying to suppress that is unhealthy

things like screen time, finish your plate, etc

screen time is just a limit on time to learn if the kid is using it for the right purposes which you should teach them to

“finish your plate” I was never told that as a kid and I devour anything that is given to me

  • wolfeh@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    Because many adults don’t acknowledge that they are a part of their kids’ learning expperience.

    They assume that kids will magically become smarter the second they turn 18, and don’t understand that kids have to be exposed to information and some adversity before then (ideally with guidance from parents) to learn enough.

    Social media is very addictive, because it’s designed that way… so let’s regulate the social media and their intentionally addictive practices, rather than blaming kids and ripping them away from some of the only “socialization” our society allows kids to have.

    “Go bike to your friend’s house” doesn’t work, because the last two generations have built eight-game highways everywhere.

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    You dont appreciate how stupid you were until you are older. Then you realize you were stupid when you were younger, and are stupid now, but over different things. If this isnt a persons experience in life, they are almost certainly a Republican. (Joke… Mostly)

    This is because with a lot of things in life, you have to actually experience them to figure out if and how you could have handled it better. You dont regret everything you do, but the things you eff up, stick with you…

    Former stupid kid, current stupid middle ager.

    • _skj@lemmy.world
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      If you don’t think you were an idiot 10 years ago, you haven’t learned enough in those 10 years

    • osanna@lemmy.vg
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      considering the brain doesn’t stop maturing until at LEAST 25.

  • disregardable@lemmy.zip
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    The screens are designed to be addicting. That’s not hyperbole. They literally use data scientists to increase the amount of time and money you spend on them. The longer you scroll, the more time you’re playing the game, the more money the developers make on average. Online service providers don’t care about your wellbeing. Your parents do. Just like there’s more food than chips and cake, there’s more to life than being on a screen. Investing in long term hobbies, skills, and friendships won’t have the instant gratification to compete with a video game, but 10 years from now you will think back way more fondly on your hours skateboarding or learning to play guitar than the ones you lost online.

    • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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      depends on the way you use it

      as a kid, most of the times I WASNT playing video games but accessing free digital information

      and I could wire up an esp32 to a 3 inch display and it’d be a “SCREEN”

      and if you use a FOSS enviroment like graphene, this doesnt apply

      I “lost online” are you kidding me? I would be homeless and destitute right now if I didnt have the skills I learned from SCREENS as a kid

      all of this only applies if you consume TechSlop

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        You’re totally amazing and stuff but I’m sure you realise that most kids aren’t using their devices to learn.

        Obviously, if a kid was reading wikipedia like you did then their parent would relax the screen time rule.

        I’m glad you dropped by to tell us all how special you are but I dont really understand the point of this post.

        • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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          teach them how to use the devices to learn all kids and humans in general have curiosity that needs to be unlocked with wisdom

          teach them to use foss

          teach them to read wikipedia and github/codeberg

          dont limit, add

          • fizzle@quokk.au
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            Wow you just solved parenting. I cant believe everyone else is so stupid. Amazing.

          • AskewLord@piefed.social
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            they don’t. most people have zero curiosity and don’t want to learn.

            you’re projecting your own experience. and besides, what you want to learn is probably very tiny slice of what is out there and there are plenty of things others want to learn you don’t or think is stupid.

            • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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              I doubt that humanity would survive pretty long then

              humans are born with curiosity and want to learn

              and I do not think anything is stupid until I learn about it

              • AskewLord@piefed.social
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                how old are you? you argue like a 16 year old.

                a bunch of grandiose statements that are mostly your own projects of yourself into the world.

                the irony being that your commentary in this thread prove that you are unwise and inexperienced in the world, and that young people are not wise. and you feel like your some counter-example, but all you are showing is you are a perfect example of and arrogant teenager who thinks lacks the maturity to understand the world exists outside of themselves and their experiences are incredibly limited.

              • moondoggie@lemmy.world
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                Are humans born with curiosity, or does curiosity need to be unlocked with wisdom? You’ve said both now.

          • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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            this is a very new situation with various perspectives

            I am just giving you guys advice on how to deal with it as someone who specialises in “screens” and how they work

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    I dont really understand the question so correct me if im misinterpreting.

    Because (in most cases) kids lack wisdom even when they know a lot. The reason screen time is being limited is generally because they arent using it in healthy moderation. People arent telling kids to finish their plate when they have no issue finishing the plate.

    Kids do need the rules and guidance because they do not have the life experience to make proper value judgements for things a long time into the future. Some kids do but most do not.

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    because your front cortex doesn’t mature until your mid 20s.

    that’s what controls impulse control and long term thinking.

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    Knowledge and wisdom are not the same. Wisdom is knowledge compounded by experience. The examples you list are not wisdom, nor are they necessarily knowledge. They are parenting techniques with obvious flaws.

    As for 18 being the magic number, that’s pretty societally arbitrary. Sure, one is legally an adult at 18 in many societies, but that doesn’t mean they have life experience to amount to having wisdom. Many 18 year olds know enough to function in society, but they’re realistically still children from a developmental standpoint. There’s no magic age for anything.

  • IWW4@lemmy.zip
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    Because they are.

    Hell there is a substantial number of people who stay allergic to wisdom their entire lives.

  • Steve@communick.news
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    screen time is just a limit on time to learn if the kid is using it for the right purposes

    There is much learning to be had out in the real world also. A balance of the two is important. Limits should be in place if the kid naturally spends too much time on one or the other.

    “finish your plate” I was never told that as a kid and I devour anything that is given to me

    If you did it on your own, why would anyone ever tell you to do it?

    • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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      Some people are good at one thing and some at the other

      if I placed simone biles infront of a dying ssd and asked her to solder wires to the infochips inside to recover data, itd be insane

      if I placed joe grand on a gynmastics field, expecting him to achieve an olympic jump, itd be insane

      and I didnt finish it first, or a lot of times. My parents just ate the rest themselves or threw it away.

      • Steve@communick.news
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        Yes, over time one or more specializations will naturally emerge. But even then time should still be spent on other kinds of experiences and knowledge. A person who only knows one thing is both helpless in life, and a rather booring person. Always at least experiment with new things so if you need them in the future you aren’t completely clueless.

          • JakoJakoJako13@piefed.social
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            Socializing with strangers.

            Socializing within a group setting.

            Self preservation skills.

            Danger assessment skills.

            Fishing.

            • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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              1. the core basis of internet chats
              2. same
              3. enhancing your security online
              4. Cybersecurity
              5. why would I need that to live
              • JakoJakoJako13@piefed.social
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                1. Completely different IRL.
                2. Completely different IRL.
                3. Completely different IRL.
                4. Completely different IRL.
                5. Do you not eat fish?

                Are you currently plugged into the matrix? Or are you living bag of water taking in oxygen and emitting CO2 like the rest of us? Are you seriously trying to downplay the value of IRL experience in favor of a terminally online life? If so you’re proving why the adults in you’re own question are right.

                • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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                  1. why would I meet total strangers irl where they can stab me instead of online meetups?
                • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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                  1. I outsource my fishing to fishermen

                  I go on plently walks a day, with my phone ofcourse and eat right you dont gotta be an outdoorsman to be healthy and happy

              • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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                and who has a whole fishing lake in the average city nowadays

                its all barren brutalist concrete

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            The fact you don’t see the potential there on your own makes it clear that you have plenty of room to grow in your own wisdom

              • Slowy@lemmy.world
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                Yes, my answer is the same. You are conflating learning with pure comprehension of factual information. Learning and knowledge and wisdom involve much more than that.

          • Steve@communick.news
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            I can easily. What kind of environment do you have around? City, suburban, rural? Woods, plains, desert?

            5 universal skills would be: navigation, hazard detection, problem assesment and solving, self reliance, physical endurance.

            • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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              1. navigating the internet
              2. cybersecurity
              3. collaborations ie. github project or codeberg project
              4. cybersecurity
              5. you can do that with a good diet
              • Steve@communick.news
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                I don’t get it.
                Did you reply to the wrong comment?
                None of that has anything to do with what I wrote?

  • queerlilhayseed@piefed.blahaj.zone
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    The thing about wisdom is that it requires understanding, which is different from knowing. I can know a rule without understanding the motivation or underlying reasoning of the rule, and crucially, I can still follow the rule even if I don’t understand it. This is useful for children because there are a ton of things they don’t understand about the world that can hurt them if they’re not prepared for it. Take for example the rule: “look both ways before crossing the street”. It’s a rule that is taught to children because running into a street without looking out for cars can get kids killed. There are a million situations like this. Not all of them are as starkly life and death, but kids who have a good set of rules can move through the world more safely and comfortably than kids without, and they can learn rules faster than they can learn the underlying logic of them. That can and should come later.

    There are also rules that aren’t so good. I think “make sure you finish your plate no matter what” is a rule that arose from a well-meaning attempt to prevent food waste, but it’s a rough fit for the purpose and it can make it hard for children to develop their own understanding of their eating preferences. I wouldn’t give a child that rule, I would spend a little more effort coming up with a solution to make sure kids are getting the nutrition they need without resorting to such ham-fisted measures.

    Screen time rules are tricky, because we haven’t had constant access to screens for very long, and the way we interact with them (TVs to PCs to smartphones, to say nothing of the media landscape in which these devices are situated) is still changing rapidly. Parents are doing their best to keep up and it is overwhelming because nobody really knows what the best rule is. I think it’s easy to say “just do whatever’s best for your child” if you don’t have kids because it’s hard to grasp the true scope of the problem of parenting: there are simply too many threats or possible threats to a child’s well-being to individually tailor solutions to everything, and you as a parent, have to pick which areas require tailoring and which areas have sufficient rules to fall back on.

    I don’t think this is unique to children either. There are plenty of domains of knowledge where knowing a few good rules can make life a lot better even if you don’t understand the mechanisms behind them. I don’t drink pond water even though I am neither a microbiologist nor a public health expert. I wash veggies before I eat them, and I wash my hands before I eat. I take medications exactly as my doctor tells me to and I consult with them before changing things.

    You may be thinking at this point, “but I understand all of those rules, why should I follow rules I don’t understand?”. Fair question. For children especially, but also for humans in general, I think the knowing of a rule has to come before the understanding of the rule. Understanding is where nuance comes in. You know the saying “there’s an exception to every rule”? There are some people who take this to mean that rules can be shrugged off when inconvenient. These people are, largely, fools. The exceptions to rules can only really be identified when the rule and it’s motivation are clearly understood. Sometimes when I’m doing emergency repairs on a software system, I will ignore the usual rules about code merges in prod. This has backfired on me before, because I did not take the proper alternative precautions one should take when moving quickly, but most of the time I think my handling of exceptional cases has been pretty good, because I have a good understanding of why those rules exist, the problems they’re supposed to prevent, and when they can be safely(ish) broken.

    Which brings me to my final point about wisdom, or understanding. Knowing about a rule, or fact, or domain of knowledge can feel an awful lot like understanding. Most humans suffer under this delusion, in most areas of their lives, for the full duration of their lives. Understanding usually only comes when one is confronted with an undeniable refutation of what one thinks they know. And that always takes time. In most cases, on most subjects, it never happens and we go to our graves never knowing the full extent of our lack of wisdom. Usually the best we can do is sort of grasp around the edges of our towering ignorance and try to get a feel for where the contours are, and the better we can do that, the better we can at least guess about what we don’t understand, and I think that’s the closest to wisdom we can hope for.

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    To set the stage, I HATE when people complain about younger generations, because EVERY generation did the equivalent at their age.

    Young adults that just finished school, whether that includes college or not, have had a very limited perception of the world. It’s not their fault, they’ve only lived “the tutorial of life” up until that point. Having a job, paying bills, getting married, having kids, watching loved ones die, and all the other experiences that don’t occur until later give you me perspectives and lessons.

    I’ve met some wise kids that have lived through things that I have yet to experience, but it’s a pretty safe bet that an 18 year old is probably not the best person to give parenting advice. They could absolutely help give additional perspective, or share ideas you hadn’t thought of, but as far as real world experience, they just don’t have it yet.

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      It is always fun to hear the old men at the barber shop complain about kids today, nothing like what I did as a kid, and then laugh about the stupid things they did. Sure what kids do is different, but it is still stupid in many cases.

    • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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      some people do some people dont shrimple as that age is not a leading factor

      • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world
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        Just a suggestion. More people will be willing to acknowledge your opinion, if you are more accepting of others’.

        You asked a question, I gave you an honest, courteous response, and you came back with what I perceived as “Whatever, I’m still right.”

        A significant part of wisdom is knowing that you DON’T know everything and that differing opinions are not a threat or insult, but an opportunity to see a perspective that you haven’t been exposed to before.

        EDIT: I’ve had a chance to read some of your responses to other replies, and I’m doubling down on my suggestion above. Your arrogance and refusal to acknowledge any ideas that don’t match your own predetermined assumptions, are exactly why grown ups aren’t taking you seriously.

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        Age is an important factor though because it takes time. Some people develop faster than others, but it take time and so younger people will be less wise. Sure there are some wiser at 20 than others at 40 - but the general trend that a 40 year old is wiser than a 20 year old is true.

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    screen time is just a limit on time to learn if the kid is using it for the right purposes which you should teach them to

    Part of that is teaching them moderation. Spending 12 hours a day on a screen, even if “learning”, is not healthy.

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        Well for one thing, those are 12 hours where you’re not moving whatsoever. Going outside, doing sports, talking to people in real life etc are all important for our physical and mental health.

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            …And you’re constantly looking at that screen while moving? Obviously, nobody would count riding a bike with a speedometer screen as “screen time”.

          • Slowy@lemmy.world
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            No, you have lost touch or you have never been in touch with the many possibilities and opportunities for growth and learning which exist outside of electronic devices. I am not remotely saying there is nothing of value online, or within technology. There is incredible value and a staggering amount of information (of various quality). But when you attain more wisdom you will see that that also applies to things outside of electronic devices and denying yourself that information and interaction is rejecting knowledge and personal growth.

            • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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              I learn a bunch of stuff both online and offline

              assuming “outside electronic devices” includes their insides such as MCUs, MPUs, ICs, etc

              • Slowy@lemmy.world
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                I do believe you have learned plenty outside of interacting with electronic devices. And I am not saying you have to leave your niche either, if you are fulfilled and stimulated that’s great.

                But to suggest that you can learn and understand everything within your tiny bubble is really demonstrating a lack of depth and wisdom… At least you should be able to understand and accept that you are choosing to disengage with a vast amount of knowledge that cannot be provided by your current sphere of interest. If you accept that, then that is a good start.

                It doesn’t mean your pursuit of knowledge is invalid or useless. But an important piece of growth that sometimes but not always comes with age is beginning to grasp the vastness of what you don’t know, how much is out there that you cannot even begin the comprehend.

                The other side of this is a bit physiological. You mentioned in another comment that may skills and concepts learned outdoors have analogues online (like navigating the internet). I just wanted to add that these are very different. Our brains have evolved for millions of years to navigate a physical environment and have unique mechanisms to do that based on vision, smell, even magnetic forces. The inherent attuning of our brains to the physical world is why things like using a mind palace technique for memory are so powerful. There are many other mechanisms like that which can’t always be exercised in a meaningful way via the internet or technology, and which contain their own opportunities for knowledge and growing ones understanding.

  • _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works
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    I remember me when I was a teenager: I was a dumbass.

    Everybody I knew from school? Also some sort of dumbass.

    I was slightly less of a dumbass at 18, but still definitely a dumbass. I think that number just gets settled on because it’s the legal age where you are considered an adult (though by actual biological standards, your brain doesn’t even finish developing until 7 years later).

    Is it stupid? You bet!

    That’s probably the main reason for it though. More likely than not, you’ll look back at your teenage years 20-30 years later (or sooner) and realize how foolish you were. Wisdom usually comes with age (though not always).

    • IAMgROOT@lemmy.wtfOP
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      that is YOU and YOUR enviroment

      “Wisdom usually comes with age”

      age is like the last factor Usually NO ONE teaches you wisdom until you are old and then you have enough time for it

      This is why im so happy I grew up around extremely wise people and the catholic church