• Quazatron@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I’m old enough to have seen this “flocking” several times. Some people stay and are pleasantly surprised. Most people go back a few weeks/months later, and leave a “Linux suxx” post behind them. I don’t expect this time will be any different, and that’s totally fine.

    • warmaster@lemmy.world
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      15 hours ago

      I was one of those nomadic users, every year, since 1998 with Mandrake Linux.

      I have always been in love with the idea of an open source OS, but if I couldn’t game and work on it, it wasn’t ready. Every year, until Valve made it easy to game on Linux.

      I made the switch when Proton was released and never looked back.

      My point is, every time users go back to Windows, they have their own personal reasons, but those will some day not be the truth anymore.

      • Bloefz@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        Gaming for me is the only thing I don’t use Windows for. But for gaming I still do. Because I mainly game in VR and that’s still so far behind on LInux :(

        But I have 20 odd computers in the house so it’s easy to have one with windows around (two in fact, another old one with Win 10 LTSC for programming some old radios).

        I love KDE for all the options it gives 🫶 I don’t like Gnome, Systemd and all the other redhat influences but they are easy to avoid these days.

        • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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          5 hours ago

          Because I mainly game in VR and that’s still so far behind on LInux :(

          This is a major sticking point for me too. I’ve got a dusty Win10 partition I haven’t booted in ages, and I was keeping it around mainly for VR, but then Microsoft had to go and just extinguish that too.

          Monado is making impressive progress but it’s a huge pain because they have to reverse engineer stuff with zero help from the manufacturers, instead of simply interfacing with the hardware.

          I refuse to let Meta have any of my money though. I hope a good affordable VR kit comes out that isn’t another hyper-proprietary blackbox.

      • AlfredoJohn@sh.itjust.works
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        5 hours ago

        I mean I love linux but the biggest hurdle is that certain software/games just aren’t compatible. I use my pc for sim racing in vr a lot. With no ability to use iracing or my vr in linux I’m stuck. While I hate Windows and would prefer to use linux, I’m not going to abandon my hobby and all the equipment I have for it just to use an os I prefer. Throughout many different domains of use for a computer their are many different variations of stories like mine. Until the software and games people use can be supported in the linux ecosystem ‘good enough’ never happens. Like for basic computer use linux is already better than good enough its fantastic, it just works has intuitive user interfaces the bones of the OS are there. The problem is that many companies and software providers just aren’t filling the gap that is the needs beyond basic web browsing, media playback and, playing older/indie games without anticheat. Without the substance people expect it doesnt matter how good the bones of the system are they are gonna be trapped in windows and linux will be stuck as the outcast programmers and enthusiasts use while knowing they have to still use windows for the niche use cases they have. And time and time again, eventually running 2 systems gets tiring and linix use/adoption slows back down again.

      • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        I think a lot of people expect Linux to work like Windows, and that’s why they go back to Windows, even if some stuff is easier on Linux.

        Many of us probably remember times when we tried to download random applications through a web browser, because that’s what Windows expects you to do. People will try that, and be confused, why stuff breaks or not work at all.

      • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        18 hours ago

        I agree. This time, it’s actually different. Big name streamers and YouTubers are showing their support. Not just people in the tech industry, but random channels like EmKay and PewDiePie.

        Linux is better than ever. Steam is a breeze. Wine support has never been better.

        Meanwhile, Windows has more nasty surprises, underhanded backstabs, and security nightmares than ever before.

        • djdarren@piefed.social
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          7 hours ago

          Dankpods has gone in on Linux too. He did a video about building a Bazzite PC a couple of weeks back.

          • Bloefz@lemmy.world
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            13 hours ago
            • Ads all over the place (and a start menu full of crapware)
            • Telemetry you can’t completely turn off anymore (the only thing I’d respect is a license check)
            • Constantly putting edge back
            • Forced MS account and removing ways to bypass it
            • Cloud upsells
            • Forced updates “do this within the next 2 days or else…”
            • “Copilot copilot copilot”
            • FreddiesLantern@leminal.space
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              13 hours ago

              -we heard you like search bars so we added a search bar next to the menu containing a search bar.

              -open wide because here comes the unwanted update train.

              -you want to do thing with file?

              No, bad user. Play candycrush instead.

              -that’s an impressive machine you have there. Would be too bad if someone were to slow it down with tons of bloat.

              -Telemetry? At good ol MS? Never.

              -oh but all the W10 menus you love are still there, it just takes a rainforest expedition to get there.

              -Just buy a one drive subscription and walk away.

              • Bloefz@lemmy.world
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                13 hours ago

                Yeah that search bar, so useless because the start menu itself is a search bar if you simply start typing.

              • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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                8 hours ago

                So, to really be sure i get it: adding two search bars is an underhanded backstab?

                Now I see why I didn’t get it, the definition being used is literally insane.

                • FreddiesLantern@leminal.space
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                  8 hours ago

                  Please make sure all your drivers are up to date and your screen is set to the correct resolution because it seems to be that you’re missing the bigger picture.

                  “Underhanded backstab” being the correct expression or not aside=> W11 sucks ass imo, get mad if you want to. (Something tells me this isn’t about proper word choice for you though, but feel free to correct me on that if that is a thing you care about)

                  • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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                    8 hours ago

                    I mean your point may have been windows sucks ass but I’m aware of where I am and that’s a completely uninteresting claim here. Why not rant about water being wet – it’s just as unique or interesting as your take on windows.

                    What I specifically asked about is underhanded backstabs, because that’s a unique and interesting claim I haven’t read 464335735 times before on lemmy.

            • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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              8 hours ago

              I uh…don’t have any of those experiences personally but that isn’t really the point. I asked for underhanded backstabs.

          • 4am@lemmy.zip
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            16 hours ago

            Ads. Steering me to store all my data in Microsoft’s cloud where they do (or inevitably will) scan it for profiling, AI training, government surveillance, etc. (which also annoyingly locks file handles when documents are open). Shoving AI into every product, even when it’s completely useless. Sunsetting useful products. Changing license terms for paid products, forcing subscriptions. Requiring online accounts only and eliminating workarounds. Removing features and replacing them with incomplete UI offering less control. Massive security holes. Annoying patch/upgrade system that interrupts me while I’m working. Flaky, bug ridden tools (Teams, etc) And updates that break hardware.

            • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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              8 hours ago

              Yes, I find Linux terribly unusable on my laptop, way too many driver issues, hard to get into a secure state, and I miss apps like signal (no official build) mpc-hc (the replacements are all trash) and a functional version of thunderbird (lol at the tray icon third party implementation that just doesn’t work). Etc, etc. I don’t have a ton of unique needs but I do want theto work

              ^and this is of course with KDE, gnome is all that but with just a trash user interface. How many gestures do I need to use to make my computer treat me like an adult ffs.

              It’s still of course on my server (an old laptop which ironically can’t be used as a laptop because at some point after some random update the login service broke and won’t accept input from the keyboard lol) and other headless devices I don’t have to actually use, thank god.

                • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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                  7 hours ago

                  The signal org produces a debian-compatible package and an apt server. I suppose there are hoops to jump through to make that work reliably on other distros but by that point my interest in using Linux was dwindling. (I actually moved for the performance benefits which didn’t materialize I think due to linux’ piss poor memory handling – I have a pretty low end laptop with only 16 gb of ram. the above we’re all just issues along the way).

                  • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    7 hours ago

                    It’s also in the official arch repositories, so any arch-derived distro has an easy install. I don’t know about other distros however

      • Ilandar@lemmy.today
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        15 hours ago

        I think it’s easily good enough for general use. It’s only certain types of gamers (anti-cheat support is still pretty terrible), and people who are heavily attached to a specific Windows program that they spend a lot of time using, that will have trouble switching across full time. For everyone else, Linux is superior because it runs so much faster than the now incredibly bloated Windows. Depending on the distro, it’s also arguably simpler than Windows too.

    • Holytimes@sh.itjust.works
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      16 hours ago

      Desktops only frankly became remotely useable to normal people with recent revisions of things like kde…

      Between that and software actually finally started becoming remotely reliable in like 2022-2023 for your avg windows user.

      Comparing the past to now is not reliable fair.

      More progress towards making things normal user friendly have happened in the last 3-5 years then the last 20.

      • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        Let me guess, you might have tried Linux on n the past but only really started using Linux full time around 2021/2022, because every time I see someone saying “Linux only became user friendly around year X” is always around a 1 year mark after they started using it daily, because it’s a lot more a matter of being used to than actual usability. I have been using KDE since 2004, and while things have changed it wasn’t all that much, I don’t remember any big usability refactor or anything of the sort happening, I’m fairly confident that if I were to put you to use a KDE 3.5 UI you would feel right at home.

        • Damage@feddit.it
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          6 hours ago

          Yeah of all the potential Linux issues you could point out, DE usability really isn’t on the map

    • mybuttnolie@sopuli.xyz
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      14 hours ago

      my buddy wanted to switch from w10 to mint and i tried to recommend kubuntu because of wayland, i told him mint will be laggy because he has many screens with different refresh rates and mint can’t handle that. he wouldn’t listen, installed mint, and a few weeks later went back to w10 raging how linux suxx it’s so laggy. could’ve just installed kubuntu but no, it had to be w10.

        • mybuttnolie@sopuli.xyz
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          9 hours ago

          oh, always thought it was an x11 issue and affected AMD too. well anyway he’s broke and he got a high-end nvidia gpu for next to nothing so I’m not going to even try to convince him to get another gpu

    • Sir_Premiumhengst@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      But this time Linux actually plays video games right out of the box. No trickery. Just install steam and the rest of the experience is smooth as butter

        • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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          3 hours ago

          this was so surprising to me; my favorite game (tropico) didn’t have blinking tiles/polygons on my linux rig than it did on windows.

          it was super strange because i put linux on my old windows laptop and it also got the blinking; but the game got better when i bought a linux-only laptop with zero proprietary stuff on it (not even the bios). go figure.

      • pmk@lemmy.sdf.org
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        12 hours ago

        As a percentage of desktop users or percentage of any users (including people who use their phones mainly)?

    • miraclerandy@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      I’ve looked at Linux for years but it was always so intimidating to me. I finally installed it when my pc was being aged out of windows 10 and honestly it’s really fun to play around with even though I’m not super tech savvy. It’s easy enough to find a solution online if I run into any problems and everything is free!

      • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        This is usually the case, people make it a monster in their heads but it’s not bad as long as you’re willing to accept it’s a different OS to be used differently.

    • Chloé 🥕@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      22 hours ago

      many people will go back, but of these, i’m sure many will also come back eventually

      i’ve tried a bunch of distros in my last 2 years with windows. many didn’t satisfy my needs at the time, so i stayed on windows.

      but now, it’s been over a year since I definitely switched to linux, and over 6 months since i nuked (accidentally, but shhh) my windows partition. and i don’t plan on going back anytime soon.

      • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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        20 hours ago

        Yeah it’s been a long road for me to be fully Linux on my personal systems. I think I started messing with Linux circa 1997 and didn’t switch over fully until I think Windows 7 went EoL.

        • Chloé 🥕@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          19 hours ago

          right now im on Fedora KDE! it works well enough for me, it’s modern, it looks good, and most importantly (for me) it supports fractional scaling well (my laptop needs fractional scaling and that’s been the thorn in my foot for a while)

          • Zoot@reddthat.com
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            15 hours ago

            I love and hate bazzite. It’s still what I use daily, but man is it weird. Just small little bugs, an it is an immutable os so that threw me off, couldn’t do my wild an whacky project but atleast most everything worked right out of the box!

    • poke@sh.itjust.works
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      23 hours ago

      Many people will definitely go back, but the percentage staying might be better this time around. Linux has gotten a lot more usable and stable for those tech inclinced enough to be able to install it thanks in part to proton, immutable distros, flatpacks, Wayland, and improved defaults. Mint and bazzite are pretty darn good for daily use. I’ve never stayed on Linux as long as I have with this run, and I really don’t feel much of a push to leave it. Most everything I want to do just works.

      • Quazatron@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        I agree, I notice more new blood around Linux compared to the previous “OMG, Micro$oft suxx, let’s all ditch Windoze!1!!” craze (I guess it was Win8.1 -> Win10, maybe?)

    • HeChomk@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      I’ve been trying to switch to Linux for at least 5 years. I wouldn’t say it’s any better now than it was then. I desperately want to love Linux, but it fights me at every step of the way. As a media pc… I have had zero success using it as a media pc. My one requirement is an on screen keyboard, but it doesn’t come with one, and all the offerings I’ve found are shit. They won’t work in some windows, or at all.

      As a laptop… This has been the most successful. I’ve not had any real issues with Linux on various laptops, other than finding replacements for certain windows software, but that’s not really a Linux problem.

      As my main pc… Gaming has been fine. Hdr has only really recently become a thing, and it seems fine. However, I’m constantly coming across stupid things are ARE a Linux problem. Downloading and installing software has too many methods. I understand downloading a file to install something. I understand downloading a script to install something. I even understand why you’d need to make that script executable before it’ll work. I don’t understand what to do with a bunch of random files that claim to be an installer but don’t seem to have an install script or a .deb package. I don’t understand why once I map/mount a network drive, it fucking disappears after a reboot and needs to have the mount process be automated at every reboot.

      Linux is just hostile to users. And while it is, it’ll never massively succeed.

      LTSC is a much better option.

      • Damage@feddit.it
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        6 hours ago

        I understand downloading a file to install something.

        That’s a terrible start.
        Software installation sources by priority:

        1. Package Manager
        2. Flatpak
          (Graphical utilities like Discover unite these two)
        3. AppImages downloaded from the browser
        4. Rpm/Deb packages downloaded from the browser, but really should be avoided
        5. ONLY IF YOU REALLY KNOW YOUR SHIT YOU CAN RUN SCRIPTS TO INSTALL STUFF

        You can add other stuff like toolbox after n.2 once you’ve got more experience.

        • HeChomk@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          Your reply seems to insinuate that all the software I could ever need will be included in the package manager. That’s just stupid.

          I agree with your order of preference, but when I start having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find what I need, it becomes hostile.

          • Damage@feddit.it
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            5 hours ago

            Your reply seems to insinuate that all the software I could ever need will be included in the package manager.

            Why would I make it a list if that was true? It would be just “1. Package Manager”

            That’s just stupid.

            If you smell shit everywhere you go…

      • Quazatron@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        Each person knows what it feels more comfortable with.

        Linux is not inherently hostile, it just has a very different way of doing things that what you’re accustomed, so you perceive it as hostile. It is sometimes easier for someone who never touched a computer to learn Linux that someone who grew with Windows to unlearn the habits.

        There’s nothing wrong with feeling comfortable in Windows, it’s the system you grew up with and know how to work with and maintain.

      • balsoft@lemmy.ml
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        9 hours ago

        Windows, starting with 8, is inherently hostile to its users in ways that are very difficult or impossible to mitigate. It’s a black box of complicated machinery, a lot of which is trying to spy on you, steal your data, show you ads, upsell you on their stupid cloud services so that they can steal more of your data, etc. At this point, disabling all of this is really difficult and unreliable.

        Linux on the other hand is like a box of spare parts that you can build whatever you want from. You really do need to read the manual, or else whatever you build will look and work like shit. However, if you do build something good, it’s yours now in a way that a proprietary OS never will be.

      • reddifuge@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        Thanks for the opinion Bill.

        For anyone wondering, linux offers over a dozen virtual keyboards and btw they aren’t called on screen keyboards. All of them work great. And lots of distros come with one included.

      • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 hours ago

        Same. I loathe Linux. I’ve been trying to use it since I was 19, periodically installing one distro or another, and I hate it. I absolutely hate it. I’m not saying it is bad or anything but I do not have the patience to fight with an OS over every tiny thing or having to look up a guide for every installation or having to double check what will work and won’t because you’re going to need a container.

        Linux, I’m sure, is great but it’s also one of the least user friendly operating systems out there, regardless of Distro. I keep trying to use Linux Mint and it keeps driving me up the fucking wall. Either Linux supports nothing without a battle or nothing supports Linux without a battle and I’m not remotely interested in fighting with my PC to do something simple. The second that that shit gets sorted is the second I’ll be fine.

        • Damage@feddit.it
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          6 hours ago

          Well that is a weird experience. I can imagine having issues with one device or one or more applications, especially when trying to use windows software in Linux, but having to fight everything seems… Extreme.