They do have contracts and are obligated to provide a certain “up time”, which is usually 99% or so. If they fail to provide that, they are liable to compensate for the losses.
Or do you think that Amazon is above the law and no other company could sue them?
It all depends on what kind of contracts they have.
Oh yea, other companies will sue them, and when amazon completely fails they will be bailed out with consumers’ tax money. Or did we already forget that’s what happens?
Much of this stuff is automatic - I’ve worked with such contracted services where uptime is guaranteed. The contracts dictate the terms and conditions for refunds, we see them on a monthly basis when uptime is missed and it’s not done by a person.
I imagine many companies have already seen refunds for outage time, and Amazon scrambled to stop the automation around this.
They’ll have little to stand on in court for something this visible and extensive, and could easily lose their shirt with fines and penalties when a big company sues over breech when they choose to not renew.
Just cause they’re big doesn’t mean all their clients are small or don’t have legal teams of their own.
These contracts do not stipulate reimbursement for lost revenue. The “uptime guarantee” just gets you a partial discount or service refund for the impacted services.
It is on the customer to architect their environment for high availability (use multiple regions or even multiple hyperscalers, depending on the uptime need).
Source: I work at an enterprise that is bound by one of these agreements (although not with AWS).
SLA contracts can have a plethora of stipulations, including fines and damages for missing SLO. It really depends on how big and important the customer is. For example, you can imagine government contracts probably include hefty fines for causing downtime or data loss, although I am not involved with or familiar with public sector/ government contracts or their terms.
You can imagine that a customer that is big enough to contract a cloud provider to build new locations and install a bunch of new hardware just for them, would also be big enough to leverage contract terms that include fines and compensation for extended downtime or missing SLO.
I work at a data center for a major cloud provider, also not AWS
Depends on who we’re talking about. Companies like finance orgs are all about legal contracts and would be able to hold their feet to the fire.
You don’t want to go to court against a finance company or any very large org where contract law is their bread and butter (basically any large/multinational corp).
Good luck arguing that a missed config counts as an ‘unforeseen issue’. If they go that route, people will be all over them for not being SOC compliant wrt change control.
They can try to argue that latency issue and the stale state were an unknown / unanticipated problem. Like when half of Canadas Rogers network went down affecting most debit payment systems. Testing of routing showed it OK, realworld flip went haywire.
99% uptime in a year gives you 3.65 days of downtime, which I think would still be within SLA (assuming nothing else happened this year). Though, once you get to 1 9 reliability (99.9%), you’ve got a shift and change you can be down before you breach SLA.
If their reliability metrics are monthly, 99% gets you less than a shift of down time, so they’d be out of SLA and could probably yell to get money back.
The problem is that the current internet is structured in a way that creates high risk systems that can cause a massive outage. We went from having thousands of independent companies to a handful of massive ones. A mistake by a single company shouldn’t be able to black out half the internet.
There was never any evidence to even suggest that AI was the cause, but as you’re on lemmy I’m sure you know that AI is currently blamed for pretty much everything.
That’s what you get when you let go hundreds of employees from your cloud computing unit in favour of AI.
I hope they end up having to compensate all the billions of losses they caused to all the businesses and people.
Consequences? For Amazon?
lol… lmao even
They do have contracts and are obligated to provide a certain “up time”, which is usually 99% or so. If they fail to provide that, they are liable to compensate for the losses.
Or do you think that Amazon is above the law and no other company could sue them?
It all depends on what kind of contracts they have.
Oh yea, other companies will sue them, and when amazon completely fails they will be bailed out with consumers’ tax money. Or did we already forget that’s what happens?
Much of this stuff is automatic - I’ve worked with such contracted services where uptime is guaranteed. The contracts dictate the terms and conditions for refunds, we see them on a monthly basis when uptime is missed and it’s not done by a person.
I imagine many companies have already seen refunds for outage time, and Amazon scrambled to stop the automation around this.
They’ll have little to stand on in court for something this visible and extensive, and could easily lose their shirt with fines and penalties when a big company sues over breech when they choose to not renew.
Just cause they’re big doesn’t mean all their clients are small or don’t have legal teams of their own.
These contracts do not stipulate reimbursement for lost revenue. The “uptime guarantee” just gets you a partial discount or service refund for the impacted services.
It is on the customer to architect their environment for high availability (use multiple regions or even multiple hyperscalers, depending on the uptime need).
Source: I work at an enterprise that is bound by one of these agreements (although not with AWS).
SLA contracts can have a plethora of stipulations, including fines and damages for missing SLO. It really depends on how big and important the customer is. For example, you can imagine government contracts probably include hefty fines for causing downtime or data loss, although I am not involved with or familiar with public sector/ government contracts or their terms.
You can imagine that a customer that is big enough to contract a cloud provider to build new locations and install a bunch of new hardware just for them, would also be big enough to leverage contract terms that include fines and compensation for extended downtime or missing SLO.
I work at a data center for a major cloud provider, also not AWS
It’s not at all uncommon for fines to be built into an SLA
Amazon has more money than most countries. They can outlast any company in court, or just ban you from their services in the future.
Most banks have their data on Amazon/Azure. You don’t want to enrage banks.
Depends on who we’re talking about. Companies like finance orgs are all about legal contracts and would be able to hold their feet to the fire.
You don’t want to go to court against a finance company or any very large org where contract law is their bread and butter (basically any large/multinational corp).
Amazon’s not hosting just small operations.
Most services have a clause that they are not liable for unforseen issues… Depends how good the lawyers were when formalizing the contracts.
Good luck arguing that a missed config counts as an ‘unforeseen issue’. If they go that route, people will be all over them for not being SOC compliant wrt change control.
They can try to argue that latency issue and the stale state were an unknown / unanticipated problem. Like when half of Canadas Rogers network went down affecting most debit payment systems. Testing of routing showed it OK, realworld flip went haywire.
99% uptime in a year gives you 3.65 days of downtime, which I think would still be within SLA (assuming nothing else happened this year). Though, once you get to 1 9 reliability (99.9%), you’ve got a shift and change you can be down before you breach SLA.
If their reliability metrics are monthly, 99% gets you less than a shift of down time, so they’d be out of SLA and could probably yell to get money back.
I worked at a datacenter that sold clients 99.99% uptime.
Fun times with a maximum of about one hour of downtime per year for hundreds of servers
They have ORANGE ass makeup on their lips. How did THAT get there???
Oops! All slop!
Mistakes happen with or without AI
The problem is that the current internet is structured in a way that creates high risk systems that can cause a massive outage. We went from having thousands of independent companies to a handful of massive ones. A mistake by a single company shouldn’t be able to black out half the internet.
Was it proven that AI wa the cause?
In not saying it wasn’t, just that if it really was, I’d like a source for that claim
There was an article in my lemmy all feed yesterday claiming so. But it was a super questionable shady site, which people were calling out.
There was never any evidence to even suggest that AI was the cause, but as you’re on lemmy I’m sure you know that AI is currently blamed for pretty much everything.
Just because this may NOT have been caused by AI doesn’t mean that AI in 99% of places isn’t absolute horse shit
No, but it clearly wasn’t the solution. They likely could have used some of those people they fired for that.
Silly peon rich people don’t suffer consequences.
OK but then… what happens when their boss jerk fires hundreds of thousands?
https://lemmy.ca/post/53821900