So sad for Firefox. I try to keep using since it’s the only solution free of Chromium, but I guess chromium will control everything only Safari will not be chromium.
Ladybird is being rewritten in Rust by AI for no reason whatsoever. Browsers should be secure, and vibe coding prevents security.
Currently I am hopeful for Servo. Its development is not as far along, but it seems way saner. It bans AI contribution, and it’s intended to be very performant.
Ladybird is pretty much dead to me, firstly because the dev has some really bad right wing vibes (he said gender inclusive language is too political for his docs and retweeted a Nazi on Twitter). And secondly because the started using AI to move the code to Rust to make it more secure, which is insane if you know anything about AI or security.
My current hope is in servo, because they have much more capable maintainers and the project seems to make some good progress. Also they have daily builds on their website for every operating system, so you can already try it out easily (but don’t expect everything to work right now, they still need some time).
Seems like the goal of Servo is to be used for embedded applications rather than as a full fledged browser. Is the idea that someone else will build a full browser on top of servo?
Ladybird is gonna be awesome, you are overblowing things, it’s an open source project chill out. Also sevro is not currently really being designed as a desktop web browser. Its a web engine for light weight embedded applications. Ladybird is currently the only in development webbrowser that is primarily designed with desktop main browser use as its intended use.
And I know you aren’t a fan but in the next 5 years pretty much every piece of software you touch will have code from an LLM in it, so get over it or stop using software.
I’m glad Kirk got necked and it’s sad he supports him, but that doesn’t change the fact ladybird is an exciting open source project that I can’t wait to try out.
see how much opinions can differ: I am not glad about anyone getting murdered (neither am I sad about this particular one), but I think that people propagating hate and intolerance should focus on therapy, not open source.
NPC behavior is not having any sense of morality and the backbone to take a stand, but I get it, it’s far more comfortable to just put your head in the sand and consume
Man I sure do love identity politics and having software and tech in general be somehow associated with political movements. I don’t give fuck about this shit.
I did not know about the AI stuff. However, I do think that the “inclusion” controversy is way overblown. Why in the world would you need to have “gender inclusive language” in the docs for a browser engine?
That ladybird gender thing is such a load of crap. I find it hard to even believe that people are genuinely passionate about it. Every time ladybird is mentioned, someone brings up the ‘extreme views’ based on this. But it is the biggest load of nothing you are ever likely to see.
For anyone who doesn’t know, here’s what happened:
The build documentation for this unreleased pre-beta software used the pronoun ‘he’.
Someone suggested that they change it to be more inclusive.
The author didn’t think it was important enough to change, so left it.
More requests and pressure came to change the pronoun.
The pronoun was then changed, and the author apologised.
To me, that’s a minor error of judgement, with no lasting harm caused to anyone at all. But yet somehow this is constantly used as a reason to avoid ladybird.
How can I take this seriously? Is this some kind of organised anti-competition propaganda campaign? We’re talking about a free and open source project of a highly technical nature, and somehow people are upset that the word ‘he’ existed temporarily in a work-in-progress document with a target audience of essentially zero people. The people making this project are not political leaders or public figures with media training. They are focused on the technical side of things. Yeah, the pronoun was a mistake, but it pretty much the smallest mistake you could possibly make in this context. It not like they are donating to right-wing orgs, or publicly denouncing anyone, or promoting hate. I see far worse than what they did on a daily basis from all sorts of people - including right here in lemmy. And in terms of ladybird, I have not heard of any kind of misstep ever since this instant - which was a very long time ago now. It is honestly bizarre that people have clung onto this incident. I’m honestly not sure I believe that the backlash is entirely organic. It’s just too disproportionate.
[edit]
Let me just follow this by saying that I do think there are other good reasons to be upset with this same ladybird dev. I just don’t think the ‘he’ in the docs thing is anything at all.
For anyone who doesn’t know, here’s what happened:
except you forgot to mention some fucking crucial steps, like harshly calling it as politics and sending everyone to a warmer climate, and locking the issue to prevent further discussion
Could it be posibble the authors first language is gendered, because this sounds like something I would say in Lithuanian like when I talk about computers I use he because the word has a male gender.
Or we could ask the question in the opposite direction - why would you use language which excluded anybody who doesn’t identify as male from the documentation for an open-source project, to the point where when someone offers to update the language for you your response is to rant about “personal politics” and write a contribution policy which forbids the use of gender-neutral language?
Can you provide an example of this non-inclusive language? I honestly can’t even come up with an example for web browser documentation that would refer to any gender at all.
Whether or not the inclusion controversy is “overblown” (it’s not; single word change would have made more people feel welcome, but Kling decided to put his for down) Kling has down himself to be Nazi adjacent.
Apparently Kling was against using “they” instead of “he”. While I do agree that it’s wrong and gender neutral terms should be used, I wouldn’t “cancel” the guy over it. Afaik they are using gender neutral terms now.
The other stuff about Kling mentioned at the bottom of your link is worrying though. It’s a shame a project as important and necessary as Ladybird was created by a person like him :(
So sad for Firefox. I try to keep using since it’s the only solution free of Chromium, but I guess chromium will control everything only Safari will not be chromium.
Librefox, waterwolf, mullvad, fennec?
deleted by creator
What is this, a cutlery drawer?
Hopefully Ladybird will be production ready at some point.
Ladybird is being rewritten in Rust by AI for no reason whatsoever. Browsers should be secure, and vibe coding prevents security.
Currently I am hopeful for Servo. Its development is not as far along, but it seems way saner. It bans AI contribution, and it’s intended to be very performant.
Ladybird is pretty much dead to me, firstly because the dev has some really bad right wing vibes (he said gender inclusive language is too political for his docs and retweeted a Nazi on Twitter). And secondly because the started using AI to move the code to Rust to make it more secure, which is insane if you know anything about AI or security.
My current hope is in servo, because they have much more capable maintainers and the project seems to make some good progress. Also they have daily builds on their website for every operating system, so you can already try it out easily (but don’t expect everything to work right now, they still need some time).
Seems like the goal of Servo is to be used for embedded applications rather than as a full fledged browser. Is the idea that someone else will build a full browser on top of servo?
I tried out the servo alpha on android and it is surprisingly usable for something so early in development
Ladybird is gonna be awesome, you are overblowing things, it’s an open source project chill out. Also sevro is not currently really being designed as a desktop web browser. Its a web engine for light weight embedded applications. Ladybird is currently the only in development webbrowser that is primarily designed with desktop main browser use as its intended use.
And I know you aren’t a fan but in the next 5 years pretty much every piece of software you touch will have code from an LLM in it, so get over it or stop using software.
I don’t think it’s overblowing things at all when I look at these tweets: https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1966456391146606806 https://nitter.net/awesomekling/status/1971287738268909576
That dev seems to be a real piece of shit.
I’m glad Kirk got necked and it’s sad he supports him, but that doesn’t change the fact ladybird is an exciting open source project that I can’t wait to try out.
see how much opinions can differ: I am not glad about anyone getting murdered (neither am I sad about this particular one), but I think that people propagating hate and intolerance should focus on therapy, not open source.
I won’t use < insert FOSS Project > because of political vibes.
I see this shit almost everyday. Absolute npc behaviour.
NPC behavior is not having any sense of morality and the backbone to take a stand, but I get it, it’s far more comfortable to just put your head in the sand and consume
Consume what exactly in this context?
Also you self righteous people still didn’t tell me why you won’t use the browser expect for vibes so I don’t really feel bad for “consuming”
Yea I just don’t get it for open source software, like you aren’t supporting their agenda by using the free fucking software
why don’t you just use chromium? it is open source, you can fork it!
True lmao xD
Man I sure do love identity politics and having software and tech in general be somehow associated with political movements. I don’t give fuck about this shit.
I did not know about the AI stuff. However, I do think that the “inclusion” controversy is way overblown. Why in the world would you need to have “gender inclusive language” in the docs for a browser engine?
That ladybird gender thing is such a load of crap. I find it hard to even believe that people are genuinely passionate about it. Every time ladybird is mentioned, someone brings up the ‘extreme views’ based on this. But it is the biggest load of nothing you are ever likely to see.
For anyone who doesn’t know, here’s what happened:
To me, that’s a minor error of judgement, with no lasting harm caused to anyone at all. But yet somehow this is constantly used as a reason to avoid ladybird.
How can I take this seriously? Is this some kind of organised anti-competition propaganda campaign? We’re talking about a free and open source project of a highly technical nature, and somehow people are upset that the word ‘he’ existed temporarily in a work-in-progress document with a target audience of essentially zero people. The people making this project are not political leaders or public figures with media training. They are focused on the technical side of things. Yeah, the pronoun was a mistake, but it pretty much the smallest mistake you could possibly make in this context. It not like they are donating to right-wing orgs, or publicly denouncing anyone, or promoting hate. I see far worse than what they did on a daily basis from all sorts of people - including right here in lemmy. And in terms of ladybird, I have not heard of any kind of misstep ever since this instant - which was a very long time ago now. It is honestly bizarre that people have clung onto this incident. I’m honestly not sure I believe that the backlash is entirely organic. It’s just too disproportionate.
[edit] Let me just follow this by saying that I do think there are other good reasons to be upset with this same ladybird dev. I just don’t think the ‘he’ in the docs thing is anything at all.
except you forgot to mention some fucking crucial steps, like harshly calling it as politics and sending everyone to a warmer climate, and locking the issue to prevent further discussion
Could it be posibble the authors first language is gendered, because this sounds like something I would say in Lithuanian like when I talk about computers I use he because the word has a male gender.
He’s swedish
Or we could ask the question in the opposite direction - why would you use language which excluded anybody who doesn’t identify as male from the documentation for an open-source project, to the point where when someone offers to update the language for you your response is to rant about “personal politics” and write a contribution policy which forbids the use of gender-neutral language?
Can you provide an example of this non-inclusive language? I honestly can’t even come up with an example for web browser documentation that would refer to any gender at all.
As opposed to
https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814/commits/beb448fc248f1cbd82a4c68ddf72687203d4d51e
That’s the example linked to from the thread which started the controversy off: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814
I don’t know the actual thing that happened but I’m assuming “the user [something] <his/him/he> [something]”
“In case of browser crash, the male, white, cis user should submit a bug report”
If the user is female, a report should be submitted by her closest male relative.
Whether or not the inclusion controversy is “overblown” (it’s not; single word change would have made more people feel welcome, but Kling decided to put his for down) Kling has down himself to be Nazi adjacent.
https://hyperborea.org/reviews/software/ladybird-inclusivity/
Apparently Kling was against using “they” instead of “he”. While I do agree that it’s wrong and gender neutral terms should be used, I wouldn’t “cancel” the guy over it. Afaik they are using gender neutral terms now.
The other stuff about Kling mentioned at the bottom of your link is worrying though. It’s a shame a project as important and necessary as Ladybird was created by a person like him :(
Good thing it’s an open source project so it doesn’t really matter at all what you think of someone working on it imo