Edit for reasoning-I tend to enjoy mean spirited funny stuff sometimes. Creators are typically kind of shitty/immoral people but I still enjoy it. I feel conflicted sometimes but still end up watching and enjoying.
I don’t have the time or energy to go through the lives of every single person involved with a game/show/movie I want to enjoy to see if anyone involved has problematic views. Like I’m going to see Project Hail Mary this weekend. If someone tells me at some point Ryan Gosling said some dumb shit while drunk or the book the film is based on has racist symbolism, I honestly don’t care. I’m watching and judging the film filled with hard work done by tons of different people.
Yes. I don’t often buy media so I haven’t yet tested if I would give them money, but I hope I wouldn’t.
I also often find that in terms of the wider philosophy of a piece of media and the people creating it, the media I enjoy tends to have a driving philosophy that resonates with me as good or at least acceptable, and the people making it likely share that philosophy. Even things you wouldn’t expect to be have this property, do; you can often tell if the vibe of an author is off by the things they say or the way they say it, and imo authors who are bad people tend to make bad art, or at least art that I dislike, because my concept of what’s enjoyable and what’s moral both ultimately come from the same worldview.
I try to avoid giving them more relevance, but I do occasionally revisit through means that don’t give them money. I hate Dave Mustaine’s guts, so I have the best three Megadeth albums downloaded (Peace Sells… But Who’s Buying?, Rust in Peace, Countdown to Extinction).
generally, no.
and if I do, I make sure not to share/promote it
Yes, I think it’s okay to enjoy whatever it is you enjoy so long as doing so doesn’t harm others or yourself. I also think it’s important to be mindful what it is that makes you feel like there’s a moral quandary, and it’s also worth considering if the media you’re consuming is the work of a group of people or a single individual.
For example, I really enjoy the movie Chinatown, but Roman Polanski is a piece of shit. I don’t think his shitness diminishes the quality of the movie because it was acted well by Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway; the writing is incredible as is the cinematography; and credit where credit is due, Polanski directed the movie masterfully. He’s still a child rapist piece of shit though.
There are a lot of fair-minded takes in this thread which is surprising for me since this is lemmy where I’ve actually seen someone tell another person they are a piece of shit for even talking about Harry Potter lore.
Depends, but generally yes. It’s just too hard to screen all creatives for purity, some people are only good at one thing, but so good at that one thing. So if you don’t let them do that one thing, it’s like there’s nothing left of them that is good. I probably won’t give them my money, but as far as reading or listening to their stuff, enjoying their art, yeah I can. Can admit they are good in at least one way, if they are.
It’s very difficult for me. But also I realize if you look closely enough at most any artist you can find something disgusting about them, so I don’t look into it in the first place. Like I used to love r. Kelly, but after learning about his past with Aaliyah and the whole situation that landed him where he is now, I haven’t purposefully listened to his music since.
Idk, maybe I’m a bad person and lazy but I like enjoying things and I have learned over the years that sometimes, ignorance truly is bliss.
It varies.
I often give the example of HP Lovecraft. I’m a big fan of his stories and the Cthulhu Mythos. But it remains that he was a huge racist. How do I reconcile the two?
First, an author’s works are separate from the author themselves. Second, in Lovecraft’s case, he was a product of his time and upbringing. And third, and importantly in his case: he’s dead. He has no ability to change beyond his passing in the 1930s. People can and do change all the time. If Lovecraft were around today he might have become to most left-leaning person in the world, but he never had that chance. There were indications, late in life, that he might well have changed.
But, he didn’t. It remains that he was a racist in life, that will never change, and because of it there will always be people uncomfortable with his work. That is understandable, and I won’t try to convince anyone that they should ignore it.
Usually if the person who made something is a massive piece of shit, that just puts me off it entirely. For example, Rurouni Kenshin might be considered one of the best animes of all time, but I cannot watch it without thinking about the fact that the guy who made it had so much child porn. Sours everything the fucker touched
Like, maybe I could learn to separate the art from the artist, but… why would I? There’s already more art than I could ever consume made by people who don’t jerk it to kids
Wait what? … fucking hell man. I think there’s levels to me no longer watching an artist’s work …
Some, I just overlook or if the stories aren’t substantiated or major. Child porn is just something else … man, I really like Kenshin too.
Yeah I’m really sorry you had to learn it here. At least Oda and Araki are still cool
If I find out about the artist before consuming any of the art, I will generally try to avoid it.
But if I already enjoy something and find out, I’ll usually keep enjoying the thing. Occasionally I won’t be able to, but I haven’t fully figured out where the rules are yet. I think part of it is if the art is directly related to what/how they were a bad person. For example I can still enjoy ruroni kenshin, because it has pretty much nothing to do with what the creator was caught with
Every physician in the world uses Nazi data collected using the corpses of Jews. Most anatomy books uses drawings mad by Nazis. Just the swastikas have been airbrushed out. The data collection was never repeated.
The Japanese got in on it too; google Unit 731. Among the outright torture and biological warfare they did some genuine if extremely unethical experiments, learning a lot about several diseases. In a similar case to Werner Von Braun, the US granted the leaders immunity in exchange for their research data.
using the corpses of Jews
Making the corpses of Jews. The vast majority of Nazi “medical” “science” was just an excuse to torture people, and has no scientific use because they didn’t follow scientific practices like “writing stuff down”
While I agree with the core of your statement, the OP is asking about media. I don’t think comparing medical or scientific breakthroughs by unethical means to art/content made by unethical people makes sense…
Once I think a creator is a bad person, depending on what they did, I have trouble enjoying their stuff.
There are a ton of comedians, for example, that have done varying degrees of bad things that I just can’t listen to anymore. Louis CK, Cosby, any of the podcast bro comedians that got Trump elected, etc are all out. When I hear them perform it is all I can think about.
Same with bands, writers, etc. I just have a nagging feeling in the back of my head reminding me the person is shitty.
Same. I once heard a song I really enjoyed by a band called LostProphets, got the album, and then almost immediately learned that the lead singer was an enormous POS.
Can’t watch Seinfeld because Jerry is a vocal zionist. BUT, I can watch Curb Your Enthusiasm and just skip and Seinfeld feature, so far
Not quite on topic, but I was never able to hate the situation with Werner von Braun. Space technology, both real and imagined, has always been an inspiration for me. It embodies the dream of aspiring to more and greater, can lift us humans above our roots as clever tool using animals. The science and technology is a great investment as it drags every part of society toward a better future (and I know some of y’all will come to bad-mouth this, but se la vie).
Werner von Braun developed rockets for the nazis, and I believe was responsible for the V2s that caused death and destruction in the UK. And it’s a root that has developed in some of the worst of humanity. And the us government brought him over, let him avoid any prosecution, used his work and let him build on it. But the us civilian space program brought us the dream, the challenge, the inspiration with his help. I am fine with that.
My feelings on the situation are pretty much inline with his treatment in “For All Mankind” and I even feel somewhat sad for him.
Yes. It’s like eating meat.
Fair point
