So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
Cunts
We can close this thread now. The question has been answered.
instance name checks out
Found the Australian
In New Zealand of all places!
Kiwis call each other cunts almost as much as aussies. We insult each other just as much, but we have better taste.
They wish they could be our western island.
“Foolish mortals” is my go-to gender neutral form of address
“Mate” is always a good option, I wish it’s used more universally in the States, too.
y’all
Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
Vosotros agrees.
Or in German: euch
I’m under the impression that you pronounce it the same way this cat looks.
yinz
The simplest approach is to accept language is inherently gendered, and at a certain point it is exhausting to either take offense to everything or walk on eggshells.
I’m southern, so I use y’all almost exclusively lol
I’m more of a “be the change you wish to see” kinda person. I’ll neutralize my language to encourage others to do the same, eroding the banks of the river of language in the direction I wish it to go.
I find “y’all” works pretty well, so does “folks” or even better “Fellow Workers.”
“Fuckers” is gender-neutral.
Try the following for groups:
Hey folks, how’s it going?
Listen up assholes!
Greetings, gumshoes
I say “greetings earthling(s)” but I also like gumshoe! Also definitely adding “listen up assholes” to the rotation, my coworkers appreciate your suggestions!
Guys is 100% gender neutral.
Also, can’t go wrong with the old standby “Stay Fresh, Cheesebags!”
If you said “I brought some guys back to my place last night”, do you really think people would be imagining a mixed gender group? Do you think they would ever imagine you brought a group of women back with you when you said that? Guys is masculine sometimes used to generalize across a group that includes non-males. It only applies when at least one male is around.
I would probably use gals in your specific example, but personally, I would use guys if addressing a group of girl friends, but that’s just how I perceive the word. I guess once you add ‘the’ or ‘some’ behind guys, I perceive it as masculine, but it feels totally neutral to me in other contexts, such as “C’mon guys, let’s go X!” or “Guys, check this out.”
'round here “guys” has become gender neutral. But “folks” is my go-to.
Same. And i will die on the hill that dude is gender neutral. Dudette sounds like a mini dude, and no way am i calling into question any dudes “dudeness” on account of their gender.
My 8 yr old grand daughter calls everyone “bro”. Including her mom!
Thats my point! My cis woman SO? dude. My trans woman friend? dude. Shes no longer with us, but my very very princess like girl dog? fucking dude.
I feel like i def call my SO, bro, too.
Earthlings is the only valid option
Earthicans
Earthletes.
Man, guys, buddy, etc
Just use them as gender neutral. Done.
How many guys have you had sex with recently?
It’s context-dependent. “They” as gender-neutral was also considered context-dependent until recently.
- “I met someone and they said…” would have been accepted generally
- “I met a woman and they said…” is only recently acceptable.
I agree that it can sometimes be gender neutral. I do not agree that it is gender neutral.
Referring to a group of people with a trans woman in it as “you guys” is passive aggressive for example.
It would be worse to treat trans women differently than other women.
Some people object to this usage of “you guys.” Some people also object to “y’all.” I know someone who dislikes “y’all” because it reminds them of confederacy and slavery.
If there is someone who expresses discomfort with certain words, it’s usually best to avoid those words in their presence.
By the way, nobody can be expected to know whether or not a woman they are talking to is transgender. “You guys” should not be avoided for the sake of trans women if it isn’t avoided for the sake of all women.
Literally a trans woman. It is also rude to cis women but cis women don’t really worry about being misgendered the same way.
Literally a cis woman. I’ll avoid calling you you guys. My trans friends approve of its usage though. I don’t find its usage rude when applied to me. Please don’t try to play the identity card just to win an argument.
How much have you read on setting male as the default as it relates to misogyny?
I’m AFAB enby, saying “you guys” and calling me “dude” is fine. Those to me aren’t gendered anymore. The people who get offended at general terms like these for groups of people need to touch grass.
But if you’re dead set on it, embrace y’all lol. Just don’t say it with a southern drawl and you’ll be fine. It’s a fantastic gender neutral term. You can also just train yourself not to add in the “you guys” to the “what’s up” phrase, and maybe just say “what’s up with you?” “What’s up with you all?” Etc.
“Offended” is a bit of a strong word.
Many trans folks are, understandably, bummed out when gendered terms that refer to their AGAB are used to refer to them.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to avoid causing that brief moment of dysphoria. That just feels like a thoughtful and kind thing to do.
It’s good that OP means well, but also there are so many of us who do not care and are not affected because we know the speaker is using a generalized term and isn’t (usually) being malicious with it. I call several of my cisgender girl friends “dude” and “bro” and I’ll call men “girl” as a joke sometimes (like, girl what are you doing?). Many of these terms simply have completely lost their original gendered meaning in a lot of contexts.
That’s great, and it’s nice that you don’t have to deal with that jolt of dysphoria in those situations.
I’m simply saying that it’s also common (and okay) to not be entirely comfortable with those terms. Especially from strangers or acquaintances.
I don’t think seeking to reduce the linguistic pattern of male as the default is a misguided effort.
A wise man once said, “I’m a dude, he’s a dudes, she’s a dude. We’re all dudes. Hey!”
Strange though, that when you ask most men how many dudes they’ve slept with suddenly, she’s not a dude…
There’s a very big difference between “dude”, referring to someone you’re talking to, and “a dude”, referring to someone you were talking about.
Not to me there isn’t…
It’s like the difference between “my shit”, “your shit”, and “that shit”. You’re not actually referring to your own things as feces, or calling it “shitty”. It’s just your shit. As in “Don’t touch my shit”. But when you’re referring to someone else’s shit as “your shit” or “that shit” it’s more derogatory. Like, “clean up that shit” or “get your shit out of here”.
The context changes “shit” from derogatory to neutral. Similarly, “dude” can be both gender specific and neutral depending on context.
Note that people are still allowed to prefer not to be referred to as “dude”, but it’s a gender neutral term in many contexts nonetheless.
As a former resident of San Diego I have no problem sleeping with dudes. Because everyone is dude.
People think they’re clever when they ask “would you sleep with the dude?” My response is " bold of you to assume that I haven’t." Everyone is dude. You can try to twist things as much as you like but dude normalization reigns supreme.
I was talking about the default assumptions people make when they hear the word. Your circumstances don’t come in to it, unless your claim is that most people share your experiences
In San Diego the default assumption of “dude” is that it can be literally anyone or any thing.
The people there accepted this decades ago. It’s not one person’s experience. It’s a shared experience of millions. It’s a geographically specific situation with the Smurf language phenomenon. Any noun can be Smurf and everyone there understands the smurfing meaning when it’s smurfing said.
A lot of people use “folks” for plural.
I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.
“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.
I really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.
If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?
Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!
Guy was originally gender neutral as it was used to call someone stupidly bold (iirc). The term was most often used toward a single gender that was known for being stupidly bold and became synonymous with that gender. That’s how it became gendered.
I’m a cis woman in IT, I’m guy, dude, man, bro… I don’t really care. You can change to make a specific person feel more confortable but most woman don’t care to be dude or guy
“Guys” is ungendered.
Reconsider whether it’s worth being friends with people that insist on fighting over the term “guys”.
And if you are surrounded by a lot of particularly sensitive people, just call them “friend” or “friends”. It works for people you both like and dislike. Glorious.
If you are in the Midwest, Guys is absolutely gender neutral.
Edit: downvote me all you want guys, it won’t change the truth.
Meh, people who want to fight over the term ‘guys’ are in the minority.
They can probably just be ignored.
