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et. al
I wouldn’t mess with her, she contains multitudes!
Fucking hive minds
We are Borg et al. Resistance is futile.
I am 7 of etc etc
Is tenforward leaking again?
That guy publishes a LOT.
What does “human drivers of fire” mean?
Well I’m here so I guess I’ll answer.
There are many human drivers of fire, the first and foremost being, well you know, lighting a fire. And boy, do humans light a lot of fires.
Take for example, here is a map of active fires around the globe, right now:
First order human drivers of fire are things we actively or accidentally do to light a fire. Ignition is a fundamental for fire to happen, and humans cause WAY more ignition events than nature does. Things like a cook fire, burning brush or downed debris for management purposes, infrastructure like power lines or fueling stations, car accidents, lit cigarettes being thrown out etc… etc… The timing and frequency of these events directly influence the frequency of fires.
Second order drivers are things like vegetation management, home placing and construction, and other biophysical drivers. For example, introduction of invasive species like bromus tectorum, which burns very readily, represents more fine fuels in the environment. Yadayadayada more fires. Other things around vegetation management would fall into this category, such as the suppression of fire, or the psychical thinning of fuels in forests, or prescribed burns.
Well I’m here so I guess I’ll answer.
Are… are you McCarty et al., TropicalDingdong?
No no no, I’m an et al, just no any of those particular et al. I focus on wildfire risk and have read much on the topic. I’ve read McCarty and many more when it comes to understanding wildfire and wildfire risk. Some of my research focuses on wildfire risk, and spatial features as they relate to wildfire risk, so drivers becomes pretty important when it comes to wildfire risk modeling. I have taken several courses through NASA on the matter even though I don’t focus on drivers directly.
This is the kind of thing I’m working on:
The nodes are features, the edges are weights. In this case I’m just looking at structure:structure risk.
I’m sorry, but you obviously don’t understand wildfires. You should really try reading Tropical Dingdongs, Esq.
It means she’s a trouble starter, punkin’ instigator, fear addicted, a danger illustrated.
So, you’re saying she’s a firestarter? Twisted firestarter?
She’s the bitch you hated, filth infatuated.
Oh, right! She’s the pain you tasted, fell intoxicated!
Found an article referencing McCarty as a “fire scientist” which is a really cool title. Seems like human drivers of fire is exactly what it sounds like, motivations and causes for why humans set fires.
human drivers of fire is exactly what it sounds like
Dudes who drive flaming cars in stunt shows?
This is my best guess without googling it or her.
The only acceptable use of generative AI is to get the shit posts out faster
I think it’s a great use, but not only.
Resume building, cover letters, aggregating open text responses, summarizing complex texts, and so on.
While the AI can’t be left alone to do these things and if you do it’ll be clear it’s AI but it can reduce the time to do them significantly.
I firmly believe this is like the age of the computer before it. Those who fail to become AI natives in knowledge work will become under employed or unemployed in 10-15 years.
So I encourage you to make an excuse to learn it and get good at it.
I always roll my eyes whenever I see a “you can’t do that because you’re a woman” character in a show, and then I’m always reminded that these people actually exist
these people actually exist
The way it’s been explained to me is that so much of the negative interactions in life come from a tiny, tiny number of offenders who manage to be shitty to dozens and dozens of people. So anyone who has to interact with many different people will inevitably encounter that shitty interaction, while most of us normies would never actually behave in that way.
Of the literally thousands of times I’ve interacted with a server or cashier, I’ve never yelled at one. But talk to any server or cashier, and they’ll all have stories of the customer who yelled at them. In other words, it can be simultaneously true that:
- Almost all servers and cashiers get yelled at by customers.
- Very, very, few customers actually yell at servers or cashiers.
In other words, our lived experiences are very different, depending on which side of that interaction we might possibly be on.
When I talk to women in male dominated fields, basically every single one of them has shitty stories about sexist mistreatment. It’s basically inevitable, because they are a woman who interacts with literally hundreds or thousands in their field. And even if I interact with hundreds or thousands of women in that same field, just because I don’t mistreat any of them doesn’t mean that my experienced sample is representative.
I wouldn’t say very few. I’d say a solid 10% of people are routinely rude, impatient or entitled in a retail or restaurant setting. Even higher in some places.
Maybe in some places. But when I go out to a restaurant, I’m often surrounded by a few dozen other diners, and no one is acting up or shouting at waiting staff. I have seen customers be obviously rude to staff but it’s very rare compared to the number of “normal” interactions. Sure not everyone is friendly and totally polite, but entitled, shouting or just being an ass is an absolute exception, like less than 0.1%. I also worked as a waiter in a couple of different restaurants over a two year period, and don’t remember any incidents either to me or my colleagues.
When I read comments like this it makes me wonder if I’ve been lucky enough to live and work in decent places, and the USA is just an nightmare hellscape, or if the reality there is much more normal and we just hear an unrepresentative sample of it.
the USA is just an nightmare hellscape
If you are visiting a restaurant you really only get a sense of what’s happening at your table. Same when you reach a cashier - you might overhear what happens straight ahead, but not much more than that. People can be very rude without being very loud - if you work in customer service you have to deal with these people all the time, and you can’t escalate things either. It’s not something other customers are aware of.
Totally agree that eating at a restaurant doesn’t mean you see all the subtle ways people are douches. But the comment above was about people shouting, so I assumed that the “10% of people are rude” was meaning obviously and noticeably rude. If it’s just 10% of people are impatient / distracted / not very friendly / kinda annoying. Then sure, but I don’t think anyone would be surprised with such a mild claim.
And as I said, I was a waiter in a busy restaurant for over two years. And the staff spent a lot of time complaining about the job to each other (as you do) and while many customers were annoying, kept changing their orders, or were a bit drunk and laughing loudly the whole time, blah blah, I don’t remember anyone ever complaining about a customer being as rude as I regularly read / see on the Internet. I never encounter a “Karen”.
I’ve always assumed it is just that Internet focusses on the tiny number of extreme behaviours and makes it sound more normal. But then I hear people say things like 10% of people are awful to staff and it makes me think that maybe there’s a real cultural difference.
Sorry, somehow totally skipped over the part of your comment where you said you worked as a waiter! I didn’t intend to explain your own job to you at all haha. There are definitely demographic differences I’ve noticed, and specific workplaces… I’ve worked a relatively small number of customer service jobs. Cafe was broadly as the previous commenter described, maybe 5-10% of people were… not great. Although, no shouting or anything when I worked there. Just rude, entitled people. Pubs are not so bad, in my limited experience, drunk people are annoying but in a different way. The worst was a job where I had to take customer calls (not quite a call centre)… There I had to deal with the closest thing to a “Karen”.
Oh god, yes. I worked in a call centre for six months and it was dreadful. The combination of dealing with sometimes frustrating situations + the anonymity of a voice only call… People were regularly dreadful. Definitely at least 10% very rude people.
I also took it to be a sign of the ‘banality of evil’, that people having a nice time with their friends, eating some nice food, are generally pleasant. But put them in the privacy of their own home, speaking to a faceless stranger, and suddenly they can be awful. But I tried not to judge them to harshly. The design of call centres, with long hold times and staff with no real power to do anything helpful, is pretty much guaranteed to frustrate the most saintly of people.
I think you’re right. People want to believe that humans are good but in reality a huge number are deeply broken.
Fixed an autocorrect in edit.
It really is a matter of perspective.
You’re saying that 10% of the population being awful means that a “huge number” are deeply broken.
So then 90% are being good! Mind, it doesn’t take too many assholes to wreck things for everyone, but it is nice that the majority of folks really are trying to do their best. A sizeable majority, even!
10% of 8 billion is still many hundreds of millions. That’s a huge number. More: it’s a number we have to stop pretending is not a big deal and get to work to fix ourselves as a species.
I seen first hand examples of something happening like women being interrupted by men and they go on about how everything is sexist and they were mistreated. But in that exact same meeting multiple guys talked over multiple other guys. It just happens, not everything is sexist but a lot of people claim sexism when it isn’t.
Sometimes it’s true, like a penismodel
Women can have penises.
Some would even argue that all of the best penises are on women.
Lol the dudebros getting mad about only having a boring male penis instead of a cute female one and downvoting you.
Oh, I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s two parts actually comradely queers considering him a chaser, and two parts he’s an absolute self-aggrandizing waste of time who thinks he’s the “better class of socialist” compared to us when “degenerate” is an active part of his vocabulary and he just can’t stop parroting the State Department.
The only “socialists” that align with NATO are the same ones making excuses for the kinds of things on Vaush’s computer is the last I’mma say on that.
Thx :3
“There are women with penises, men with vaginas, and phobics without teeth.”
They can have one, if they have penises that’s scary
someone missed your joke about one person having multiple penises. or maybe they’re really progressive and are looking out for their multipenile friends.
Look, if one of you knows a guy (or a gal) rocking hemis and you’ve been holding out, I’m gonna lump you up with a Louisville Slugger on my Johnny Dangerous shit.
She is McCarty for sure but I doubt that she is et al too …
Common misunderstanding - her full name is “Jessica McCarty Et Al”
Is that her father?
We’re all et al on this glorious day!
My friends just call me Al.
Alright Allen Iverson… Or is it just Al. Can’t tell with damn LlIi
Oh, that reminds me:
l ll ll L
Oh, that reminds me:
l ll ll L
I’m at a loss as to what you are trying to say.
As a white dude, I would be horribly embarrassed to do something like that. I hope the guy in the story learned a lesson from it.
As a white man, I don’t give a fuck about group identity
It’s easy to do when you’re part of the two most privileged groups.
Sorry for being born as the two most privileged groups.
At least I’m a gay, fatherless and poor. Its all ok, put your pitch fork down
What pitch fork? Do you even know what the word privilege means?
ITT people baww at the mere mention of race and gender, and proceed to behave as if the problem is other people being too sensitive about race and gender.
This funny story really brought a lot of great accounts out of the woodwork to block!
I’m very sorry, but what is ITT and baww?
ITT. In this thread.
Bawww in this context means “cry”
Thanks for the clarification. This is how I find out that I’m old.
What does old mean to you? Maybe you’re just not terminally online 😅
… ITT has been used since early 00s AFAIK (2003 urban dictionary https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ITT). It’s possible that it was used before that I just couldn’t find any “proof” and can’t remember it personally.
The bawwww I just got contextually. Plus sounded out it kinda sounds like someone bawling their eyes out. QQ
Upvoting in solidarity.
What does skin color and gender have to do with this?
Any kind of interruption seems rude AF, and that’s without even considering the sexism and insinuation that she’s incompetent.
What’s the norm for the audience in situations like this? Raising your hand? Holding any questions/comments until the end?
Funny, but what does the skin color have to do with the situation?
When a given demographic is a dominant presence in a given area (not necessarily work, it can be anything), there is a tendency for they demographic to start making assumptions about other demographics.
In most places, men are the dominant presence, and in most of the “western” world, they will also be white.
In this case, the individual who a white male was doing what’s called colloquially, “mansplaining”. He was correcting a woman when not only was the woman right, but was the very source he was using to correct her.
This is a consistent and very unpleasant fact of the world that white men will treat anyone of any other demographic as less than equals.
In this specific case, I suspect that the person making that post was pointing to the prejudice and stupidity of the person indirectly insulting her being a systemic issue arising from both gender and sexual entrenchment along with the privilege that allows the dominance of the white male demographic despite their being no quantifiable factor for that group to be dominant other than that privilege.
She, in other words, was pointing out a systemic issue by using an anecdote. Which can be a bit difficult to accept as evidence. Or would be if there wasn’t a good century or so of giant piles of anecdotes from real people pointing to that systemic issue not only existing, but being something that holds everyone back.
Truth? Yes, women and people of color are going to assume they’re right and whoever they’re talking to is wrong just like any humans will. But white dudes have been pulling that crap for multiple generations, and anyone that isn’t both white and male get sick of the bad behavior.
I still don’t see why adding the skin color was important, but eh, I have other things to deal with, so I don’t really care, just found it slightly annoying.
Gender not important also, loads of women “mansplain”, it’s a problem with attitude, not gender or race
Yep, I hate that word as well, but didn’t have the energy to post about it…
Because the 'splaining phenomenon is about perceived but unearned superiority which leads the 'splainer to 'splain to someone who knows a great deal more than they do and, crucially, someone who the 'splainer ought to realise knows more than they do but doesn’t because of the illusion created by the society they live in.
I’d have added “(born) middle-class” because that’s an important part of it too.
When a given demographic is a dominant presence in a given area (not necessarily work, it can be anything), there is a tendency for they demographic to start making assumptions about other demographics.
Isn’t she the one making assumptions, though? Specifically, the “prejudice and stupidity of the person indirectly insulting her” part? I mean, is that really the only possible explanation?
What other reason would you suggest as to why he would assume that he knows more than her or that she couldn’t be the person that he’s referring to? Clearly he didn’t even know her name yet so what did he have to go by to draw those conclusions? It obviously wasn’t her lack of knowledge on the subject that they were discussing now was it?
If the post said “a Black trans women interrupted me”, would that be also fine, in your eyes?
Are Black trans women known for this kind of behaviour? Are there apologists for Black trans women who make every effort to miss the fucking point that there are people who think this isn’t a thing that happens?
Nonody is “known” for that behaviour. You really just seem to ascribe personality traits to people based on their skin color. I thought we were long past that.
It is intentionally, intellectually dishonest and obtuse to pretend that condemnation of systemic problems resulting from unfair biases for/from certain demographics is as bad as the systemic problems in question.
Is that dog coming when you whistle?
Are Black trans women known for this kind of behaviour?
The question suggests that Black trans women are all alike. It’s exactly that kind of generalization that’s being criticized.
Nobody is saying all white men are like this, what they are saying that it is only white men who do this.
Being a white man who is aware of the stereotype, I in no way feel attacked by it. I do feel aware that I need to be careful not to interrupt my colleagues or to mansplain things that I may be less knowledgeable about. This response from me is beneficial to both myself and the people I interact with.
“Only white men do X” is absolutely racist and sexist. “Mansplain” is derogatory.
“Mansplain” is derogatory.
I agree that it is derogatory to mansplain to someone, like to tell an expert in a subject that they don’t know what they’re talking about and thinking that’s okay because they are a woman.
Are there apologists for Black trans women who make every effort to miss the fucking point
Oh, don’t blame people. Don’t bring irrelevant details if you don’t want to distract them from the fucking point.
This is a consistent and very unpleasant fact of the world that white men will treat anyone of any other demographic as less than equals.
Pls stop generalizing this bad behavior upon all white men. It only serves to further the divide, and is completely unfair and uncalled for against those in the demographic who don’t subscribe to those beliefs or patterns of behavior.
I’m not sure if that was your intent, that’s just how it comes across and it makes it hard not to completely write off your argument/viewpoints for being unable to respect your neighbor.
I’m a white man. I can absolutely generalize about a well known aspect of reality. It isn’t in question that white men are currently in a position of overall privilege, and that as a group that position of privilege has the effect stated.
I pretty much also said that this is true in the western world where white men are the supposed majority. I said that the same would be the case with any dominant group because humans are just like that.
A generalization can not only be true in general, but it doesn’t inherently mean that the entire group is at fault (beyond any unintentional benefits from the situation, which is what’s called privilege in current discourse on matters of gender and race in specific, but applies to more than those alone).
Here’s the thing. Until and unless we, not just as white men (speaking of the group I’m in) work on calling out and correcting bad behaviors as a group, to the point that it ceases to be a problem for others, we are part of the problem, no matter how little any individual likes that.
Divisions currently exist. They will always exist because any time there is a place of authority/power, there will be those that seek it and use it. Over time, you might see a given demographic shift in and out of that place of power, but it won’t change humans being humans; there will be abuse of power.
That’s the real key. The fact that white men have held dominance over most of the world for centuries (for a given value of most, and a given value of white) is simply fact. One could argue that the position of dominance really covers all the world since anyone wanting to disrupt that has to contend against that hierarchy. There are definitely places where, within a region* white men aren’t the dominant group, kinda impossible to be otherwise. But trying to pretend that the world isn’t the way it is is just silly.
Completely agree with your points. But also hope you can see it may be more fruitful to appear as though you’re ready to attack the problem, rather than your fellow man.
I say this because I didn’t read this as an outright attack or denigration of your fellow man, but I very much fear how easily any other man may interpret it and how it could serve to further the divide and make the problem even harder to address. That is my chief concern.
I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your position fellow internet stranger <3
rather than your fellow man.
Imagine thinking anyone who actually has skin in the game is going to look at genocidal oppressors as “their fellow man” fucking lmao. Clown world kumbaya shit that will only end with the settler empire standing over unending hectares of the bodies of subjects-of-empire who got backstabbed and throat-slit by the settlers; while they still hold the knife.
As long as the knife is still six inches in our back, it doesn’t matter that the settlers planted it twelve, and “graciously” drew it back six; the settlers haven’t done shit worth being regarded as “fellow man”. Really, haven’t done shit in general other than harm us.
I think the generalization isn’t really about white men per se, but about the demographic in power. Give a group unchecked power long enough and they forget how that came to be. I agree that it’s not a rule, and maybe should be expressed as more of a heuristic: if you are speaking to someone that is in power, and you don’t look like them, they might think you are not empowered.
Don’t let the lack of nuance in that statement take away from all the very valid points being made. The plight is real, and hopefully the white men who are enlightened enough to not confuse circumstance with natural order will read and know to not take it personally.
Thank you for the civil discussion.
Completely agree about unchecked power and your interpretation of it as a heuristic rather than an ambiguously defined trait.
I most certainly realize the plight is real and wish it never was like I’d hope all of us can say. But the lack of nuance struck me as dangerous. I understand how disenfranchised men will interpret things, and when people willfully neglect the opportunity to be concise it leaves a worrying amount of room for misinterpretation and effectively is ragebait that can serve to further entrench a misguided incel or the like into their toxic niche.
And for anyone who thinks I’m overreacting: see how Reddit powermod awkward_the_turtle intentionally acted to provoke men, then wrote off everyone who took issue with it as inherently being member of the ideology they were allegedly targeting. Reddit, the company, enabled and encouraged this mod and their collaborators to attack users on their platform indiscriminately.
If Lemmy is to serve as only a new platform for abuse, then it deserves to die with the rest of social media. Please, do not let it come to this. Discuss and debate civilly.
This is a consistent and very unpleasant fact of the world that white men will treat anyone of any other demographic as less than equals.
Citation needed.
In all seriousness, I understand your point and respect you for trying to deconstruct the mechanics of privilege.
But I just factually disagree with your assertion. I would argue that every human being has an inherent preference for people that they perceive as similar to themselves in some way, and this can result in bias along racial or gender lines. However, this arguably applies less to white men than any other demographic, because such behavior is so consistently condemned and shamed when exhibited by white men.
In contrast, people of other demographics are less frequently made aware of their own biases, because calling it out has not been construed as some kind of ethical imperative, as it has with white men.
It’s also well documented that women have a much stronger in-group bias compared to men.
In essence, women can be characterized as “If I am good and I am female, females are good,” whereas men can be characterized as “Even if I am good and I am male, men are not necessarily good.” This sex difference in cognitive balance suggests that a mechanism that promotes female preference in women does not similarly contribute to male preference for men.
https://rutgerssocialcognitionlab.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/9/7/13979590/rudmangoodwin2004jpsp.pdf
Privilege is writing off your own privilege as inherent in nature and then pointing at other groups of people going “but they’re allowed it’s not fair!!!”
This is news to me because I have been condescended to exponentially more as a decently passing white trans woman by cis white men in particular than I ever was before transition by ANYONE. Worst I ever got from black men was one calling me a “pretty thing” riding past on his bike. White men are getting the most push back as of late because they have historically been the worst offenders. And that hasn’t changed yet. That doesn’t mean the rest of us are free of guilt, but there is a very obvious frontrunner when it comes to unearned perceived self superiority, conscious or not.
You can’t be racist against white, duh
Edit: nobody realized this was sarcasm
It’s a reminder than people that have always been in a privileged position often don’t realize they do.
What privilege applies here?
lemmy.zip
Edit: this slap fight below this comment is the reason for this comment originally, that is why it was a joke to point out the instance, Thanks for demonstrating my point lol
I don’t know what that is supposed to mean…
I expect ignorance from your and other such instances
Yet you offer no reason for doing so…
I feel like the incomplete explanation should have been more than you expected in the first place
I get and accept that you may dislike me based on my comments in this thread, I am more confused as to what the lemmy.zip instance has done to dismiss it outright.
Because everybody makes the same shitty comments and it’s almost more tiring than anything.
If you so graciuosly “accept that we may dislike you” why can’t you understand we wouldn’t like people like you especially when it’s always the same tired bullshit from people like you.
Or even the gender?
Edit: so… based on the downvotes this gets, its not OK for a male to interrupt but if it had been a female or other gender, then it would have been ok?
Male and Female aren’t genders, they’re Sex, Words used to describe biological makeup of a living creature, for example XX Chromosomes are Female, XY Chromosomes are Male, but there are also instances where XXY Chromosomes can happen, and things get a little tricky.
Gender is what we use to tell children how to behave based on their genetalia and cause dysphoria in them when they don’t want to do something but will get ostracized for doing what people with the other genetalia do.
There’s a lot more to sex than chromosomes. It’s probably better to say it’s clustering of positions on bimodal curves of traits. And even then you wind up with weird shit because biology really doesn’t like simple classifications. Like seriously there are so fucking many ways to be intersex and intersex people are downright common.
But also grammatically male and female when used to refer to humans are generally just the adjectives for man and woman.
You know when the right looks at the left and calls us batshit? Your comment is shit they point to…
What’s batshit about it? As a society we do exactly that, we tell boys to like blue and girls to like pink.
Did you drop a /s? This is a funny meme, so I’m assuming I just missed a joke.
Right?
(Speaking as a white male, white male entitlement, and privilege for that matter, are incredibly relevant to white men being sexist/racist.)
(You can trust me on this because I’m a white male. Also, I’m used to my opinion being listened to, so I expect you to as well. Just FYI.)
It’s not obvious? Because white males as a demographic are the most privileged people on the planet and not coincidentally also the ones most prone to petty, oblivious arrogance, tantrum-throwing, and egotistical man-splaining. The latter was demonstrated by the one in this NASA scientist’s anecdote.
This robs people of their individual context. The UK Prime Ministers wife is Indian and astonishingly privileged. You are suggesting a poor mine worker from Romania is somehow more privileged based on how he looks.
Lumping people into loose categories (particularly based on skin colour) and then prescribing loose values to them is fascist and racist.
youre deliberately misinterpreting the concept of intersectionality, it includes class.
I’m not deliberately mistinterpreting anything, if I don’t understand something, then explain it to me.
Incredibly privileged of you to assume everyone else has your spoilt middle class educational background
Incredibly privileged of you to assume everyone else has your spoilt middle class educational background
uhm, actually, it is in fact YOU who is the privileged one in this scenario, no I. check, and furthermore, mateYou’re posting to a niche reddit-clone that you only could’ve reliably found out about through either reddit, twitter, or mastodon. You have access to Google, you disingenuous twit.
Not relevant, it’s not my job to Google your arguments that I don’t know exist. If you wish to correct me on something, please do!
LOOK IT THE FUCK UP WHEN YOU’RE CALLED ON FUNDAMENTALLY MISUNDERSTANDING SOMETHING RATHER THAN BEING A REDDITOR PEDANT, JESUS FUCKING CHRIST DO YOU NEED TYING YOUR SHOES EXPLAINED TO YOU THE SAME WAY???
Y’know what, since I can’t even trust you to do that right at this point, have a link for it! https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=intersectionalism
You are suggesting a poor mine worker from Romania is somehow more privileged based on how he looks.
You misunderstand the concept of privilege. It’s not linear. Intersectionality was devised to solve this exact contradiction.
Expand?
Intersectionality is the idea that various forms of privilege and circumstance interact with each other to make an individual. Certain influences are more impactful upon a particular person’s circumstances, and thus influence privilege to a much greater extent. The non-linear nature that DinosaurThussy is talking about can better be shown with examples.
If you’re homeless and white it’s clear that you’re in a worse off situation than a billionaire who is black. Class status has a far greater influence on this situation. It would be fair to say that the black billionaire has more privilege due to his class status but not his ethnic identity. That being said, it’s unlikely that the white man was denied a job due to his race in a way a homeless black person may be. Being poor and white and poor and black have many commonalities, but intersectional analysis allows us to understand the different ways and avenues that particular characteristics influences the ways that a person may end up in a particular circumstance.
The idea continues on. A person who is a billionaire may be significantly shielded from a lot of racism, or face it in a less extreme way. For example, that proverbial black billionaire likely wouldn’t have many run ins with racist cops in impoverished neighborhoods. However, he still might face the unifying characteristic of being called a slur by his peers in the way that a poor black person might. His privilege of wealth may not complete inoculate him facing racism at all, even if he faces it in a less extreme way.
In essence, this situation is viewing individuals dialectic-ly. It seeks to understand how all of a person’s identity and circumstances relate to the struggles and oppression certain groups or people may face in society.
I empathise with most of this and thank you for bothering to respond without resorting to 4chan energy.
The problem that remains unresolved is the refusal of some people to acknowledge that, like in science, observation is not without cost. What ends up happening is the observation of these trends then causes casualties of blame - in your example we could say the huge population of white people who dont fundamentally see black people in any light other than equal. An insult based on a black billionaire being a greedy billionaire gets called racially charged, when actually, it’s entirely class based. This reliably means that (for example) white working class boys/girls are left to rot.
Personally I see most of these prejudicial issues being an exclusively American problem that has been exported abroad, to the extent now that its difficult to untangle.
Prejudice being exclusively a domain of America is a crazy hot take
That poor mine worker is still in a better position than an otherwise identical minority would be in the same position.
A poor mine worker is in a tough place but at least he wasn’t refused that job because the company doesn’t hire non white people.
This exporting US culture shit has got to stop
We aren’t talking about another mine worker. We are comparing 2 individuals with certain characteristics. You have instead decided to compare a third individual because the initial comparison made the concept break down
Just because someone is a certain color does not prescribe to them any specific value judgement. As soon as you do that, one of those categories becomes the ongoing scapegoat for everyone’s problems, and it becomes fascist.
Does it ever occur to you that for your arguments to make sense you have to strip it of all context, historical perspecrive or material reality.
I literally didn’t say anything about the us. I’m saying that Romanian is still better off than a minority in Romania that got discriminated again.
Any more reasons for you to smugly ignore everything everybody is repeatedly telling you.
For people who complain about how rude we are and how we’re an echo chamber you’re being shown an incredible amount of patience for how unbearably obtuse you’re intentionally being.
The @lemmy.liberals in the comments here being flabbergasted that straight white men in positions of power are privileged and embarrassing is very funny
Keep it up dorks
Edit:
To the salty folks out there mad about people not stooping down and being your personal elementary school teacher to teach you basic lessons about the world we live in, and our friends from lemmy.world who are assuredly reading through posts like this one from defederated instances (hi!)
A word about what it is to be civil in conversation and Why Those Tankies Are So Mean (not a tankie but w/e):
I will definitely admit that I was very annoyed and could have been nicer about a lot what I went about saying throughout my posts in this thread. Here’s the thing, ‘being nicer about it’ is a personal decision not a moral necessity, and not even necessarily beneficial at all. The “it” we’re being “nicer” about is often something horrifying, like when people got upset at Aaron Bushnell for his self immolation, people who were more upset about THAT than they are about what’s happening to innocent bystanders in Palestine. These are not positions that should be met with civility. No one is required to put up with someone’s bullshit just for the purpose of helping them learn and grow. Its good to do in the few times when that is possible…
but here?
on the internet? On a not-reddit forum website in a science memes community? Its 1/10000 chance where that’s possible.
We all know why you would feel attacked by seeing the mention of his white maleness and the implication that had anything to do with it. No unbiased person would see that and think “this is prejudice based on skin color!” or pretend they can see no connection between the guy in the tweet’s old male whiteness and THE TWEET, A perfect encapsulation of the absurdity our nightmare culture which enshrines and systematically enforces the power of ignorant old white men. Its not a statement that all white people are bad, its not a statement that all old people are bad, its not a statement that all men are bad.
It’s a recognition of the systemic rot inflicted on the scientific community by our current culture shaped by patriarchy, capitalism, and imperialism.
Add to that how sick I and many of us are of the constant bullshit, the harmful attitudes beliefs and inevitable whining and whinging when the least criticism lands near the fancy of the loser we run across on some post. We’re leftists, but also most of us are either trans or queer or poc or neurodivergent etc etc or any combination thereof. We have been around for years just on lemmy, and years before. And over those years, have grown to recognize civility bullshit for what it always was. And recognize what it means when we see stuff like this post, where people are upset about criticism of privileged behavior that demonstrates an injustice inherent to our current system. So we see that bullshit, and we come down on it. To see that an not react harshly against it is no different than contributing to it yourself, to let it fester and grow, to let something horrible and unjust become simply ‘normal’.
To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened is unacceptable.
That’s why many people in this thread reacted negatively to the comments we did. Clear enough?
This is why I usually just say shut up, loser. It’s way fucking easier, and taking the effort like this is never worth it, not on here, not with the .world et all crowd.
So shut up, losers.
Why is ‘race’ relevant here? What the fuck is wrong with Americans and how did they become so astonishingly self flagellating.
That said… this sounds like one of those fantasy scenarios where “then everyone clapped”.
Just on the insecure posture of this tweet, I’m prepared to bet cold hard cash that he asked her for clarity or something with a informational challenge “but does x not come from y?” Or whatever and she manufactured his reasoning and the rest to feel good. She doesn’t seem to know what et al means either.
They’re mentioning the race and gender basically to say “a privileged person”. Having privileges obviously influences your character. And race+gender correlate with privileges.
So, while there’s no direct causation, and us white males who aren’t chumps don’t need to be offended, it’s often good enough of an explanation why a particular white male might be a chump.
Why is ‘race’ relevant here?
Because it’s extremely relevant in American culture. Every culture really, we’re just somewhat ahead on not lying to ourselves about it.
What the fuck is wrong with Americans and how did they become so astonishingly self flagellating.
Nothing and we’re not, you’re an irate ignoramus with a chip on your shoulder having an imaginary dick measuring contest because you’re super duper sensitive about race.
Just on the insecure posture of this tweet, I’m prepared to bet cold hard cash that he asked her for clarity or something with a informational challenge “but does x not come from y?” Or whatever and she manufactured his reasoning and the rest to feel good. She doesn’t seem to know what et al means either.
He was literally telling her to go read her own work. The “et al” part is very fucking clearly taking the piss, do they not have humor over there in Stuckupistan? Or are your panties always in too much of a twist about basic ass descriptors to have any kind of humor about literally anything?
E: guy’s post history is chock full of dogshit-tier takes with a thin veneer of leftism and a big heap of good ol’ fashioned xenophobia.
I agree that the usage of “white” is irrelevant here. That being said, are you in academics? It is not an unusual situation for people to not be aware of the “face behind the maths” so to speak. Granted, this is not entirely unique to women in science but it is exhaustingly common for women to be questioned more than their peers.
I think questioning this is fine as many people lie but I wouldn’t take this to mean this type of situation didn’t happen/couldn’t happen.
I recognise that, I think it’s important to make very clear distinctions with no sweeping statements when prescribing value to demographic groups.
While I perfectly agree with your position on that the “privilege” talk has become a weapon in and of itself, and that a lot of bullshit stories come out of it, I’d love it if you could change the tone of conversation.
Americans are different, and they may have cultural reasons to behaving this way. That’s not to say they’re right - but seeding anger this way is not gonna magically change their minds.
This is a reasonable request
Hilarious. I actually witnessed this online when someone tried to “well actually” another user and it turned out that user was the author of the paper they cited.
I see it happen a lot online with people “looking for help with”, but really just looking to vent about, open source software.
And I encounter it a lot at work with policies, reference docs, and little PowerShell scripts I’ve written.
“Hello I am tech support. Sysadmin, please help with strange situation A”
Sure thing, you’ll need to do X.
“But that doesn’t match our documentation, it says to do Y and that’s not working”
My man, look at the changelog on the first page. I wrote it and made most of the updates for the first year we had it. This is an exception, and adding it to the doc would have bloated it outrageously for how infrequently this comes up. Especially to explain the why. I’d also need to try to cover all the other rare exceptions, which would turn the doc into an absolutely useless shitshow. Anyway, I should have a PowerShell script to handle it, give me a bit to find it.
“Ahckstually, Numpty #3 says our team has a PowerShell script to handle it already, no worries! Thanks!”
Motherfu- My brother in christ who do you think wrote that? You know I used to be on your team, and I just said- My name is in the first line of the scri- I mean cool, glad I could help you get it sorted.
Similar story, talking with a vendor. Again, I’m the one not in quotes.
I need you to connect me with a technical resource on your side for assistance with attempting an alternate solution Y for the issue we are facing, which Important Muckety Muck #7 in my company said you were able to do for them. I understand that I previously suggested that we could do X on our side as a solution for our problem. As we’ve moved forward in other places on this project, we have found that X will not work for us as a solution for reasons A, B, and C.
(He’s breathing loudly through his mouth, hanging agape between words like some great panting missing-link-between-man-and-ape who has somehow found his way into a sales position. Somewhere in the dark recesses of his mind, the sounds of the wind through jungle trees, the calls of ancient and exotic birds and animals, the quiet noises of strange insects alien to this modern time and place, all combine into a beautiful primal music lost to the modern world. It flits through his subconcious, never quite fully able to be grasped.)
“I am the technical resource. According to my notes, X was identified as a solution to your problem.”
(This was not some poor third world guy stuck in a call center having to follow a basic help desk script. Same first language, a few states away, he’d been involved with this project the whole way)
AS STATED IN MY PREVIOUS EMAIL
BOFH vibes haha
Clearly the race and genre are both only being used in this sentence for bullying purposes. What could very well be just “a random guy” was specifically changed to “a white male” to really attack the race and genre mentioned. If it was another race or genre it would be called racist. The “white males” won’t accept this blatant racism many more years without standing up against it, trust me. But then they will be called racist. They are not racist only while they accept being bullied and accept racism towards them. This hate speech against white males is being completely normalized in america daily. And being used in comments, sentences and now even books in such a “normalized” way that it disgusts me. Just because whites are not a minority, doesn’t mean we can bully and be racist to them. And in this exact sentence, it triggers me so much that the “while male” adjective was used with the clear intent of bullying and image degradation of the mentioned race and genre.
When will we, as humans of all colors, stand up against racism against whites (and especially males) that is strangely being more and more accepted as a normal thing daily?
Edit: ofc I am being hugely downvoted. Society can’t understand that bullying against whites actually exists. She just didn’t need AT ALL to use the race and gender in her post. Minorities and inequalities between genres exist and should (and are) be solved. Women and all other races deserve all the same as white males do. But white males don’t need to be bullied in exchange or used in jokes like this like if they are the modern punching bag of standup comedy.
White dude here. It’s super easy to read something like this without feeling disenfranchised or bullied. Sure we can do better to avoid it, but that should not at all be the main takeaway from this testimonial. Why aren’t you angry at the common propensity for women in places of academic and professional authority being looked down upon and disrespected like this? This is super common.
Why aren’t you angry at the common propensity for women in places of academic and professional authority being looked down upon and disrespected like this?
Well, I am angry at that. Women and all races deserve equal rights and possibilities. We should keep fighting for that. But white males don’t need to be transformed into comedy punching bags in exchange for women/other races equality. Can we respect everyone INCLUDING white males?
This comment has an “all races matter” vibe to it.
No it doesn’t. Not wanting to be the target of racial or sexual discrimination is a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for. I swear, half the “leftists” on Lemmy are just larping…
They could have simply said “post doc” and the story would read the same. Race/gender adds nothing to the story and is unneccesary and like they said if it was any other combo of race/gender it would be seen as racist so why add it?
Exactly. People don’t seem to understand that my comment was refering exclusively to the fact that she added race and gender only for bullying or hate speech pursposes. If it was a women or any other race she wouldn’t add it or would she?
As a white male myself, I know exactly how much it sucks when another white male gets all fragile and in his feelings, because now I gotta stand up and point out that you’re whining about somebody pointing out the bad behavior of a Caucasian dude. My man, our cohort is so incredibly prone to bigoted, self-important, crybully temper tantrums that I can’t open a browser without seeing a white dude whinging about how much it sucks to have to hear about actual harm done by actual white men. Yet I am not oppressed by any of those stories. Neither are you. The original post was not about you.
Unfortunately this seems to be my experience and perspective too. White guys who think this strongly that we’re victimized or disenfranchised make me very suspicious of what the rest of their worldview entails.
If you don’t see that many white men have been so privileged for so long that they act entitled to be shitty towards others (including to other white men) than you must be seriously delusional
The “white males” won’t accept this blatant racism many more years without standing up against it, trust me.
Ten years. Whiteness as a systemically-perpetuated social construct has only been getting consciously pushed back on for ten years now; and you’re already QQ’ing like you’re facing genocide and dispossession of ‘your’ lands(the same ones you committed 400 years of genocide, slavery, exploitation, dehumanization, and displacement to get). My bloodline has endured 400 years of tyranny perpetuated by bloodlines like yours, and all your little friends; and yet you collectively still draw breath.
I promise you, even if your whole internet-tough-guy, “we will not tolerate this” schtick like you’ve gotten anything more than a metaphorical papercut compared to the manifold atrocities you’ve visited upon the world actually came to pass? You’d still just be proving us right. To you, our freedom, our liberation, looks like a bullet; and you fear that what we would do is the same barbarism you would.
It’s crazy to see this upvoted.
As white males born recently, at least on historical scale, we hold no responsibility for what other white males did back then, and you hold no special moral right to oppress anyone - you weren’t the one oppressed, and we weren’t your oppressors.
It’s equally wrong to do racist things towards black and white people, and it’s equally wrong to be sexist against males or females.
If we want to actually stop racism and sexism, we should stop it from spreading both ways. Otherwise you do nothing but feed into reactionary movements that will start the struggle again, while oppressing people who didn’t deserve, by any means, tp be oppressed.
As white males born recently, at least on historical scale, we hold no responsibility for what other white males did back then
Incorrect. You maintain and perpetuate those systems without even being self-aware enough to realize you are. Even this muleshit argument of yours is a tacit affirmation of the systemic white supremacy that underpins your society. “Just because I tangibly benefit in every fucking facet of my life doesn’t mean I’m responsible for it and you’re being a reverse-racist for trying to get what you and yours are historically owed!”
you weren’t the one oppressed, and we weren’t your oppressors.
Tell it to the white cop that unjustly held me at gunpoint while his Black sellout ride-along just stood there with his thumb up his ass. Tell it to the 61 Cop City protestors in Atlanta facing FEDERAL RICO CHARGES for standing against white supremacy; while not a single Jan 6th rioter’s faced HALF as dire charges. Tell it to your system of prison chattel slavery that tore my family apart and has kept uncles and cousins away from their blood.
feed into reactionary movements that will start the struggle again,
The struggle never fucking ended. The bill is coming due. I pray I live to see it.
“…to be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a state of rage almost, almost all of the time—and in one’s work. And part of the rage is this: It isn’t only what is happening to you. But it’s what’s happening all around you and all of the time in the face of the most extraordinary and criminal indifference, indifference of most White people in this country, and their ignorance.” --James Baldwin
If you consider me as someone who perpetuates those systems while being unaware of it, you’ll have more luck pointing out the ways in which I do benefit from them rather than blaming me for something I don’t even know of. If you consider me an unknowing beneficiary who doesn’t actively support those systems, you pick the wrong target. I’m more than willing to deconstruct the systems of racial prejudice, and I point out racism and sexism directed at black people and women. At the same time, if my very existence with certain traits gives me benefits, I can’t do much about it, and then you make nothing but spite.
I’m sorry you and your family had to endure unjust treatment by the authorities. I do not know your situation, and if there was a racial aspect to it, I’m sorry to hear it and I genuinely support initiatives directed at fighting those discrepancies and bringing true justice. In any way, I personally am not the cop who hel you at gunpoint, nor do I support any of that. I do speak out against racial prejudice - in the Internet and real life.
You didn’t quite understand when I said about reactionaries. The bill you’re gonna see is only gonna grow as by directing your hatred at white people, you feed into the rage in response, and guess what that is? White supremacism. And while most reasonable people, me included, will do our best to fight them off, they do grow in numbers. More and more people are tired of people pretending to fight racism while being blind about themselves making same sort of mistakes.
You want equality? Go for equality. You want to stop racism? Stop being racist yourself. There’s a lot of ways you can fight for your rights without becoming bigoted yourself. Your “neverending struggle” in a way you stated it is nothing but fanatical adherence.
I’m real happy for you chief but I’m not reading all that patronizing anglo “maybe later kiddo” setting-timetables garbage. Your cohort’s already wasted enough of my time and patience with that bs, take it somewhere else.
“Dr. King’s policy was, if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That’s very good. He only made one fallacious assumption. In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none.” – Kwame Ture
only white men can read an anecdote about a woman being tired of having her own field mansplained to her, and turn it into “…and that’s why this is bigoted against me, actually”. Holy fucking shit dude.
Won’t someone think of the poor disenfranchised white males.
When will we, as humans of all colors, stand up against racism against whites (and especially males) that is strangely being more and more accepted as a normal thing daily?
You get 0 ‘progressive points’ for standing up for white males. One of the last socially acceptable punching bags. Look at the proliferation of the ‘dumb dad’ on sitcoms, totally acceptable.
DEAR GOD! The patriarchy! A successful woman…who’s probably rich and living in a nice house and owns a nice car who may have not put her face out there that much wasn’t recognized for who she was immediately.
Also who was that guy? what are his qualifications? Has he achieved anything?
I suspect this story didn’t happen. How could you be so bad and speaking about your own work that someone questions it like that?
