That’s the entire point of why tankies like me bring up such topics. When Europeans insist in the “superiority and democratic rule” of Europe vs. say China, it’s because we remain oblivious to the sins of our own countries while we’re constantly bombarded with propaganda against socialist projects. You can get started with the Wikipedia article on Occitan Language if you’re interested.
I don’t care what France is doing when I’m talking about China
Thats the entire point. There is immense propaganda about China while we literally don’t know what happens in the neighboring country. If there were an equal amount of contributions in .world about repression of Occitan as there is about China, I would make it less of a point to bring it up constantly. It’s not deviating, it’s not letting anti-China discourse dominate in the platform
In the early 1900s, the French government attempted to restrict the use and teaching of many minority languages, including Occitan, in public schools. While the laws have since changed, with bilingual education returning for regions with unique languages in 1993, the many years of restrictions had already caused serious decline in the number of Occitan speakers. (via wikipedia)
It seems rather dishonest to conflate the attention given to the oppression of current minority groups with that given to the oppression of minority groups that hit it’s peak around a hundred years ago (and arguably started in the 16th centry).
There’s been decades of effort to preserve the culture already, improve the cultural situation for Occitan speakers and there are active efforts to improve the treatment of minority languages and culture in general in France:
I don’t think a single person isn’t aware that France was staggeringly racist in the early 1900s - for good or ill, nobody is going to argue it wasnt. They’ve made huge strides on this specific topic, however, and while they can do better, the reason people are unaware is that it’s lost in the miasma of horror that was French Colonialism in the era that suppression of Occitan and related minority languages was at its it’s height - it’s rather restrained for that time period, if we’re being honest.
You’ve done some wonderful cherrypicking. That section of the article links to the Vergonha article:
France has also continuously refused to ratify the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, and native non-French languages in France continue to be denied official recognition, with Occitans, Basques, Corsicans, Catalans, Flemings, Bretons, Alsatians, Savoyards and other langues d’oïl speakers still having no explicit legal right to conduct public affairs in their regional languages within their home lands
Compare that with Uyghur:
The Uyghurs are one of the 56 recognized ethnic groups in China and Uyghur is one of the two linguae francae of Xinjiang, along with Standard Chinese. As a result, Uyghur can be heard in most social domains in Xinjiang and also in schools, government and courts
Back to France:
In 1972, Georges Pompidou, the President of France and a native of an Occitan-speaking region, declared that “there is no room for regional languages in a France whose fate is to mark Europe with its seal”.
In 1992, after some questioned the unconstitutional segregation of minority languages in France, Art. II of the 1958 French Constitution was revised so that “the language of the Republic is French” (la langue de la République est le français). This was achieved only months before the Council of Europe passed the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, which Jacques Chirac ignored despite Lionel Jospin’s plea for the Constitutional Council to amend Art. II and include all vernacular languages spoken on French soil. Yet again, non-French languages in France were denied official recognition and deemed too dangerous for the unity of the country, and Occitans, Basques, Corsicans, Catalans, Flemings, Bretons, Alsatians, Nissarts, and Savoyards have still no explicit legal right to conduct public affairs in their regional languages within their home lands. The text was again refused by majority deputies on 18 January 2008, after the Académie française voiced their absolute disapproval of regional languages, the recognition of which they perceive as “an attack on French national identity”.
On 27 October 2015, the Senate rejected a bill for the ratification of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, preventing the adoption of a constitutional reform that would have given a degree of official status to regional languages such as Occitan.[39] On 8 April 2021, the Breton MP Paul Molac tried to pass a law to protect minority languages, and this law was passed by the French Parliament in Paris.[40] However, the French Minister of Education, opposed to the teaching in minority languages, asked the Conseil Constitutionnel to declare it unconstitutional. This led to the law being constitutionally struck down on 21 May 2021
The use of regional languages in local governments is still severely contested. In 2022, some local councils in the traditionally Catalan-speaking department of the Pyrénées-Orientales, such as Elne, passed a modification of their statutes to allow the intervention in Catalan language by their elected members, as long as they provide an exact oral translation in French, as well a written French translation of the session.[42] Despite being considered a symbolic gesture, the prefect of the Department, arguing that the political rights of French speakers will be violated, appealed to justice to repeal these initiatives. In April 2023, the Administrative Court of Montpellier sided with the Prefect, thus declaring illegal the decisions of the local councils.
Regarding the segment where you quote “bilingual education” the article on said schools numbers:
A total of 62 such primary schools existed as of 2016, as well as four high schools, teaching 3,614 students in total
Tell me again how much worse Uyghur language is being treated than Occitan. For reference, there are about 13 million native speakers of Uyghur and there are 12 million ethnic Uyghur in China, meaning literally almost all of them speak it. There has clearly been a prolonged effort to maintain the language.
That’s the entire point of why tankies like me bring up such topics. When Europeans insist in the “superiority and democratic rule” of Europe vs. say China, it’s because we remain oblivious to the sins of our own countries while we’re constantly bombarded with propaganda against socialist projects. You can get started with the Wikipedia article on Occitan Language if you’re interested.
Thats the entire point. There is immense propaganda about China while we literally don’t know what happens in the neighboring country. If there were an equal amount of contributions in .world about repression of Occitan as there is about China, I would make it less of a point to bring it up constantly. It’s not deviating, it’s not letting anti-China discourse dominate in the platform
It seems rather dishonest to conflate the attention given to the oppression of current minority groups with that given to the oppression of minority groups that hit it’s peak around a hundred years ago (and arguably started in the 16th centry).
There’s been decades of effort to preserve the culture already, improve the cultural situation for Occitan speakers and there are active efforts to improve the treatment of minority languages and culture in general in France:
I don’t think a single person isn’t aware that France was staggeringly racist in the early 1900s - for good or ill, nobody is going to argue it wasnt. They’ve made huge strides on this specific topic, however, and while they can do better, the reason people are unaware is that it’s lost in the miasma of horror that was French Colonialism in the era that suppression of Occitan and related minority languages was at its it’s height - it’s rather restrained for that time period, if we’re being honest.
You’ve done some wonderful cherrypicking. That section of the article links to the Vergonha article:
Compare that with Uyghur:
Back to France:
Regarding the segment where you quote “bilingual education” the article on said schools numbers:
Tell me again how much worse Uyghur language is being treated than Occitan. For reference, there are about 13 million native speakers of Uyghur and there are 12 million ethnic Uyghur in China, meaning literally almost all of them speak it. There has clearly been a prolonged effort to maintain the language.