“On systems with Secure Launch enabled, attempts to shut down, restart, or hibernate after applying the January patches may fail to complete.”
“On systems with Secure Launch enabled, attempts to shut down, restart, or hibernate after applying the January patches may fail to complete.”
Linux is currently easier to use than Windows. People who think otherwise are Windows users who think different equals worse.
Correct.
If you can’t figure a modern linux distro, that is specifically geared towards being n00b friendly (there are a good number) …
… its time to retire from thinking you are tech savvy, its time to hang up that hat, time to humble yourself a bit, realize you overspecialized in the wrong direction.
Installation of the any Linux OS is also easier to install. And much quicker.
This is simply not true. I don’t understand what lying about this does for anyone.
As a recent Linux convert, pretty much every hardware has full windows support while Linux you’ll have to hunt for shit.
Basic stuff like Nvidia graphics cards or even Logitech peripherals will not “just work” on Linux.
Again, I love Linux and for me the pain was worth it, and most of the issues aren’t really Linux’s fault, it’s the manufacturers who are assholes, but your average windows user had no idea about who’s responsible when their mouse won’t work and they can’t install Logitech software.
On Linux Mint, my Nvidia graphics card and Logitech keyboard and mouse just worked.
I have a bunch of different laptop models at work. For the most part, they do all Just Work with Ubuntu.
At one point the newest models would drop to a black screen after installation, but I guess that was fixed with some update because even those work now.
The support is getting better by the minute! I do think steam os has helped catapult Linux ahead from where it was just 5 years ago in terms of hardware support
Yeah, my old machines (and work laptop!) are all nvidia, and it’s nice how seamlessly it works.
With the main version of mint that’s based on ubuntu, you get a driver manager so that you can choose between driver versions if needed.
With Linux Mint Debian Edition, it worked fine for general use out of the box with the open source driver. I went looking for info about the nvidia driver out of curiosity, and after stumbling upon some forum discussion I went ahead and tried “sudo apt install nvidia-driver” and it freaking worked!
edit to add: it did a LONG setup process to enable the nvidia driver too. I think it compiled some kernel modules and stuff too. But I like reading all that lovely monospaced terminal text scroll by with those details most users can ignore.
Weird i converted 3 systems to linux last year and every hardware was plug and play, except a 3070ti for which it was open the driver launcher and click once
Nvidia graphics cards don’t “just work” on windows either tbf
Yes they do. You do the community no favors pretending it’s not easy and reliable.
From my experience, you have to manually go to the Nvidia website and download the installer on Windows.
In Linux, depending on the flavor, it may be copy-paste a line from Nvidia’s website, or selecting the right option in the OS settings.
I’m sorry, I did IT for years and still do it for friends if they make it worth the trouble. So, I have to ask, what the hell are you talking about?
Pretty much every logitech paripheral has worked perfectly for me on both windows or linux. It’s a mouse and keyboard, generic drivers work perfectly fine. Hell, I use a trackball mouse and that works plig and play on linux. Hell, open up a new windows computer run through the setup then disconnect it from the internet then plug in a logitech keyboard. Look at the driver for it in windows, it will probably be “generic keyboard driver”. It’s a keyboard.
Jesus fucking christ what is it with these agressive fucking responses?
https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/software/ghub
Literarily the official website doesn’t support Linux, my Logitech gaming mouse I have to dual boot windows to configure.
I don’t understand why people can’t simply admit that some shit sucks on Linux.
Windows is worse, worse for you and your privacy, but some things are simply plug and play for the average person noob on Windows that aren’t on Linux.
Being honest with people will prepare them to be patient and approach Linux with realistic expectations and they are more likely to stick around.
There is software on Linux that works with Logitech mice. Changes buttons, dpi, rgb, etc. Simple, and less bloat than ghub (which keeps getting worse).
Of course, I can’t remember the name. I’ll try to update this when I hope on my PC
It’s Solaar and it absolutely does not work with all Logitech devices and it does not 100% do what the real software can.
Again, the blame is fully on Logitech, but the average person simply isn’t going to understand that.
You have niche hardware that no one has bothered to reverse engineer. There is niche hardware that works better in Linux too, but you don’t complain about how difficult windows I’d when there is no support for it.
At least it’s likely to get linux support at done point if it’s popular enough, maybe complain to logitech so they know supporting linux is something their customers want?
I swapped a year ago, I went from Mint to Fedora then to Cachy. I use Debian on a home server and now NixOS on my laptop. I would say this is more of an issue with you and or the distro you chose aswell your hardware. In the last two months I even swapped my little brother to fedora cause all he does is game and all of the sudden I am not having to help him do anything or fix random errors, the only “hard” part or searching was nvidia and that was simple after reading one page of documentation. It all depends on what you choose, your desire to learn and your hardware. Also on Windows you have to go find the correct website and download the correct file from there, which is getting harder and harder with search engines feeding you the highest bidder instead of the actual site you need (This is how my bro used to get viruses because he didnt understand vetting websites)
if it’s just gaming, consider a side-grade to bazzite:
it’s an atomic fedora distro (even has a dedicated Nvidia installer), meaning it’s more difficult to break and easier to rollback when it breaks!
and it has a bunch of gaming related tools pre-installed, which is helpful, but not the main selling point imo.
anyways, yeah, linux gaming is really, REALLY easy these days!
I forgot about bazzite I had it on my rog ally x for a bit, it was pretty nice I just swapped it to cachyos for better performance I may end up swapping him over to bazzite though, thanks for reminding me of it!
I use bluefin since I do AI research but installing Steam is super easy. Personally I think it’s good if you have learned how Linux works at a high level (things like kernel and user space, systemd, the filesystem, targets, etc.) but in principle it requires very little maintenance. No dnf update and possible issues with drivers, almost everything is taken care of upstream. They even have an AI chatbot based on dosu on the discussion forum so you can troubleshoot.
You might have been unlucky. I never had serious installation issues when installing Ubuntu on a lot of different computers in the past five years. Just started the installer, click next a few times and reboot into the new installation. It used to be some tinkering required to get everything to work, but apart from having to enable the proprietary Nvidia driver in a GUI (and having to search for it) everything else just worked. My last Windows install however was a shitshow. Took ages and I had to disable a ton of surveillance stuff. On top of that I had to go through some weird hoops to keep the thing from requiring me to create a Microsoft account. What distro did you use? I guess some are more difficult than others
Distribution choice makes a lot of difference, but they’re not wrong, manufacturers just don’t write drivers for Linux. Sure, we’ve got AMD, Intel, and even nVidia (fuck nVidia btw) writing theirs, but peripherals are way more hit or miss.
That’s only going to be solved with wider adoption.
The main difference is that the additional software you need to install doesn’t always come from the manufacturer on Linux. Other than that it’s actually pretty similar.
Heck, there are even devices that work better under Linux, such as the Logitech F710 gamepad. That one has been subtly incompatible with the USB stack of every Windows after 7 while it works with Linux just fine.
On Fedora I go to the repo (app store) and install the Nvidia drivers… on windows I have to download them from the Nvidia site. I’m not sure what you are talking about. Linux is easier but it’s pretty much the same process.
For Logitech use Solaar, also available in most distribution’s repos.
So your argument is the hardware is an issue where my argument is Linux is easier to use. My 78 year old mother in law uses Pop everyday and hasn’t had an issue in the 3 years since she switched. Hearing that you’re having issues with nvidia and Logitech is going to devastate her…
I’m not the person you’re responding to, but if I have headphones or speakers or a mouse that aren’t plug and play on Linux which is what I’m used to on windows, I think it’s fair to say that my experience with Linux is less easy than with windows. The average user is not going to consider that a hardware issue, and it isn’t a hardware issue. If it’s a driver issue, I’d call that a software issue. Im glad to hear your grandma is not having issues with Linux, but as a Linux user I have to agree with the other commenter. A not insignificant amount of people will run up against some issues with Linux that the average user is likely not equipped to solve. I’m not saying that it means Linux is bad, but it really isn’t helpful to act like that’s a complete fabrication.
If that were the case, i would agree, but I dispute this claim.
Can you tell me specific models of headphones, speakers or mice that are not plug and play in any modern widely used distro?
“… which is what I’m used to on windows…”
Reread my original comment.
Claim in dispute
In this case different is worse. If you’re used to a restaurant that serves carrots and I serve you peas you can argue that it’s not worse it’s just different. If you’re used to a restaurant that serves carrots and I tell you I don’t know what carrots are and I don’t have any alternative suggestions, but if you can find a store that provides what you’re talking about, appropriately transport that to my location and teach me how to cook them I will do that, then I think it’s fair to say I’m just a worse restaurant. What’s not comparable is easy of use. If you don’t understand how a lack of plug and play affects ease of use then there’s nothing I can say that will fundamentally bridge that gap.
No alternative suggestions? Linux is an alternative suggestion. The problem isn’t the lack of carrots, it’s your lack of palate.
Exactly. A lot of people seem to think that different = worse, or that not supporting the same software means it supports less software. I couldn’t move to Windows right now because there is a ton of stuff I use Linux for that Windows has no alternative, or the alternatives are terrible. It works both ways.
Honestly, I love having a w11 rig AND a laptop with zorin and a laptop with w10 and a old all in one with mint. Variety is the spice of life, I need a Windows laptop to tune my cars ecus. Simply not able to do it in Linux, but my Linux laptop has stuff my windows doesn’t. Real ones can’t just live with one os B)
I wonder if the software you need for cars would run under Wine.
For years I kept one Windows laptop running only so I could use one proprietary app that I used occasionally when teaching. It was not ideal, but whatever. Then Windows started showing ads. on the desktop. that I was showing to my students! That I will not tolerate. So I poked around with Wine and found out I could run that app on my Mint laptop!
Goodbye forever TinyFlaccid. Go fuck yourself.
(note: I do have to use a windows machine for one thing still - to print at work using my company supplied office computer. sigh.)
As someone who’s worked in IT for years, it’s my opinion that different is worse.
I don’t really mind supporting multiple operating systems, it is a little more of a hassle, but it’s far better than supporting users on systems they’re not familiar with. As much of a nice idea it is to “streamline” an organization by putting every machine on the same os, in my experience it actually works better to put everyone in whatever os they’re most comfortable with. For a lot of people computers are hard, period. And needing to learn new systems just to do their job is the kind of thing they have nightmares about.
When it comes right down to, any modern operating system will do just fine, they’re shockingly similar in the end. Plus, in many industries upwards of 80% of a user’s work may be in a browser anyway. So that’s where I stand, people should use whatever they want, and making people change isn’t a great idea.
Sometimes different is even better! When I switched to Linux a few months back I didn’t anticipate just how much I would like the Gnome desktop environment. Now I sometimes even try flicking down my mouse to switch tabs on my Win11 work pc and get a pang of disappointment when it doesn’t work.
I never used Win11 but I started using Linux (Nobara OS, by friend’s advice) in November, and not really. If you never used either, I’m sure the learning process is as easy, but switching isn’t.
I wanted onedrive on desktop to conveniently edit .tex files, which I can’t do on browser. The most popular option worked at first (after figuring out the terminal), but has bugs with downloading every once in a while (And Nobara doesn’t update it as consistently). The second didn’t work at all. The third, I got to connect, but I couldn’t get it to make a synced folder, on top of misleading description (the flatpack I found said it manages cloud, but it was the GUI for a package you needed to install via terminal anyway. And Nobara encourages to only use flatpacks, rightfully it seems) So I’m sticking with the buggy one and downloading the files from browser occasionally.
For that matter, installing TeXStudio had a font related bug too, and the solution was between the lines of a post about a slightly different problem and final solution.
The first installation (where I picked Fedora instead of Nobara at first) led to the laptop not booting, where my friend said “yeah that happens, I backup before I install something” (though he uses Arch), and I also accidentally installed Steam twice because the discover flatpack is a seperate one from the Nobara preinstall.
Windows? Most things are an .exe you launch, or have instructions specifically for Windows (complete with typical directories) while Linux has to account for at least a dozen distros.
I get what you’re saying, but it’s not really true.
If the only program you run is a web browser, then you’re probably right, but only because Linux expects you to know how to use your computer and install updates yourself.
Linux has achieved a very stable OS that offers a very granular experience, which is great if you know what you’re doing, but if you don’t, it’s pretty arcane. The ability to configure everything on your system exactly how you want it to run is a double edged sword.
If you want anything beyond what is offered out of the box, you’ll need to interact with the terminal at some point, which is a pretty steep learning curve for the average user.
Aye, if you’re not using any of the preconfigured forks like Bazzite, popOS!, Kubuntu or Mint
But they exist cause they install all that shit for you, same as Windows does
So Windows users don’t need the command prompt?
unless you’re a sysadmin or a power user, no, not really.
You think Linux users are required to terminal up? My poor mother in law…
Find me two programs and I will switch completely. One that allows me to burn my dvd/blu rays with no cap that can convert to MP4s. Second app I have is Audible and I can download the files. Then with TunFab convert those files into MP3s. Only reason I am still using Windows. Oh not to mention the app that allows me to pull Amazon Music files and convert them to MP3s.
What’s the app for Amazon Music? Or does it just record them from the website version?
TunePat Amazon Music.
Does it actually download proper FLAC?
Wine lets you run windows apps. Use that.
Just tried none those apps work with Wine. So again stuck witn Windows.
Tbh i had that much legacy stuff on my system i just virtualised the entire win 7 box.
Oh okay, thanks I will check it out.
It is.
And honestly, remembering the stuff I had to do to play the original Doom at a LAN party back in the day.
We all did that back then!
If someone was a “gamer” they were not afraid to do this because they either knew how or knew a friend who was happy to help.
Compare that to what I do today that most gamers consider “mind-numbingly super nerd impossible bullshit lol linux sux”, running GNU GUIX:
O hey everything just works. Proton kicks in automatically.
Welcome to the convo, fellow old person.
I just set up a raspberry pi and i couldn’t figure out if it would automatically update, there wasn’t any gui option for it.
I found a few websites all with different methods to set up auto update. One of the most accepted was some cli that was encouraged to copy/paste. It installed something, but it then needed additional config to work on rpi.
30 mins from the time I powered on it was ready. In windows, it’s enabled out of the box and searching for “updates” on the task bar finds it for you.
Which of these OS’s was easier?
Last time I used Raapbian there was a GUI for updates, and I think it would show a notification periodically for updates.
This is mostly a difference of not knowing really. I have a Mac at work and it seems incredibly hard to do easy things, but mostly because I’m not used to it nor I bother to learn.
Raspberry OS is, imho, is not really representative of the desktop Linux experience. It’s a bit like Gentoo or Arch. Great OS’s, for their intended use cases.
While RPis with Raspberry OS can be a decent desktop replacement in a pinch (I’ve done it), it’s more intended for learning and experimentation.
If you’re intending to use it as your primary computer, I’d recommend using Ubuntu or Fedora. And running the OS on an USB3 external solid state drive.
Fair, but why not enable updates by default? Not doing so seems like a disservice to the internet community.
Their purpose is to be used as a base to build your own system, not something for someone to use as-is out of the box.
It’s kinda an ethos thing that goes way back, and Microsoft keeps giving us examples of why it can be a bad idea. Essentially, it boils down to the idea that YOU should be in control of what your system is doing.
Most distros can (including Raspberry OS), and many of them will check for updates automatically, but none that I can think of will install updates automatically unless you purposefully choose to enable that function.
Disagree when it comes to security patches.
Which version of Linux did you install? It supports a lot of them, and most have updaters that are easily configured from the task bar, just like Windows.
Stock rpi released in December.
If “easier” is not knowing how something works, and it’s complicated, then there’s your metric.
To me, life is always made simpler through my understanding of a problem, and more complex by my paving over/abdication of critical thought.
@Brkdncr @the_q in some cases is windows, in some cases is linux…
I developped an browser exntesion that needed do comunicate with external apps, in linux I setup the NativeHost file and took about 15 mins to make that comunication, on windows I took several hours debugin regedit
Was this before or after you had to hop into command prompt to force a local account?
Oh so you have met my aunt