No shit Sherlock. The smart voters were telling you MAGA was going to fuck everything up.
GPU from Temu when ?
There’s the MTT S80 (First PCIe Gen 5 GPU lol) which is the consumer grade version of Moore Thread’s enterprise GPUs like S4000, but the problem is that they trade off super cheap VRAM and PCIe bandwidth for low compute power compared to even antiquated stuff from Intel, AMD, and Nvidia.
They’re actually a great choice if you want to run AI/LLM stuff for really cheap, and Moore threads has their own CUDA knockoff called MUSA which iirc does have support in the various LLM backends available. Back when they released, it was going for something like $160 in China and ~$200-250 online. Could easily pool the VRAM, though finding a mobo+CPU combo with enough PCIe lanes to spare meant you’d most likely not be taking advantage of more than maybe 2 or 3 cards in one tensor parallel split.
China’s domestic processor production is still catching up, so even though they have access to high speed RAM and all the latest standards, they don’t have the cores to match.
Their last KX7000 x86 CPU was comparable to a skylake i5 or i7, but just with newer standards like DDR5 and PCIe gen 4. So they’re about 7 years behind based on that estimate.
Bullshit. They are just funneling the sales through other countries to bypass export control. Oligarch just trying to make false numbers to pump up “potential” future market gains for stock manipulation.
If america only had a guy in office who understands, and is good at, business, then we’d be okay. /s
“We shouldn’t do business with China” is a bipartisan approach to foreign policy at this point. Like, cutting the Chinese economy off from high end processors and chipsets is a decision that goes back to the Bush 43 administration. And it’s worked, in so far as we’ve actively discouraged the largest chipmaker to sell to Chinese firms.
But the consequence has been a rapid proliferation of Chinese chipmakers and an explosion in Chinese tech R&D in the fields of chip fabrication and design. Turns out you can’t just cut 1.4B people out of a market forever. Certainly not 1.4B people with a sprawling university system and a massive home-grown tech industry hungry for microprocessors.
They make pretty good stuff, too, and it’s often more affordable. Had several Xiaomi products in the past, and so far I’m very pleased with my Huawei watch.
Yup. For all the making fun of chinesium (socially acceptable racism often when people talk about chinese products. Very clear when one scoffs at a taiwanese product as being trash because chinese but then walks it back when they learn it’s of taiwanese origin), in my life I’ve seen chinese phones, audio products, and cars go from scoffed at to being well regarded in enthusiast communities.
I saw it in other hobbies of mine. Not long ago people only talked about Japanese and German chef knives - Chinese knives must be trash. Then eventually people started to try out Chinese knives that weren’t just grocery store bargain stuff. Now progressively people are trying knives from Vietnam. Turns out people have been making knives in these countries for thousands of years. Not as bad but maybe worse is when a person I knew told me they were at first surprised to learn movies were made around the world rather than just being in hollywood, english language. Went from American and European made video game peripherals dominating to more and more chinese competitors like 8bitdo, aula, whatever.
In my lifetime, earlier if it said made in South Korea of made in Taiwan, the assumption was poor quality. Hyundai was scoffed at until like the mid 2010s in my experience. I’m told Japanese products were scoffed at as poor quality until like the end of the 70s and then you had major strikes and violence against Asian American people in the rust belt as anti-Japanese sentiment primarily in regards to competition for autoworkers and steel. Now Japanese made is fully regarded as high quality and the desire to compete in quality+value+parts+serviceability doesn’t seem to be of much interest to US or European automakers (that parts availability and serviceability is major)
I imagine it the same as decades back with Korean and Taiwanese made goods, you get you pay for. If you start on the premise that a $200 Chinese product should be as good or better than like a $500 American product, that’s a nonsense expectation to have. People will go from a $1200 iPhone and use a $200 Ulephone and determine that $800 phone from a company with a Chinese sounding name, name of their CEO, are trash unless it turns out that that Chinese sounding name company is headquartered in Taiwan or Singapore
China makes great stuff, we just don’t see it here often, the cheap junk with “Made in China” stamped on it is disposable garbage or scam knock-offs of a better product from somewhere else.
The maddening thing is that the anti WTO protesters said this would happen, then it did, and now that China is an economic power house the general policy on offer - rather than meet the situation we created on its own terms - send to be a return to mercantilism and a general retreat from the pax Americana.
I was there in the PNW protesting WTO and getting tear gassed as a college student. I believed that the WTO prioritized corporate profits over labor rights, and just allowed them to ship jobs overseas. I’m sad that I was right.
I was too young to be in the thick of it, but I participated. It wouldn’t be until a decade later that the pieces started to come together for me. It’s weird to grow up gradually realising you’re from not one but two of the wickedest countries in history.
What is your second country?
(っ˘<(ꏿ﹏ꏿ;) US/UK
Funny, I just noticed that sounds like “u suk”
The WTO was always a modern form of merchantilism, predicated on the theory that Wall Street financiers would functionally control the global stock of capital in the end.
The China Problem is, at its root, that too much capital is owned by Chinese nationals. We had similar problems with Japan and Korea in the 80s and 90s, and solved this by forcing them to devalue their currencies and take on loads of foreign debt - both private and public - while hooking themselves up to the Saudi well-head for their energy needs.
But the Seattle protesters never really got a head of steam behind them, because Americans did benefit from all these cheap imports more than they suffered. Like, its hard to talk to a guy making high-six figures in the Bay Area or at Microsoft or Apple campus that they’d have been better off working the textiles or lumber industries or making low-margin electronics.
This was a real J. Sakai “Read Settlers” moment. Very hard to convince colonial settlers to vote/organize against what was their generation’s own best interest. If anyone should have been protesting (and quite a few did but certainly not enough), it was folks in Bangladesh or Malaysia or the Philippines, since they were the ones who ended up eating most of the global industrial era shit sandwich.
Now we’re faced with Chinese economy that gets to both make a bunch of high value high demand components and domestically consume it, though. And that’s not nearly as good a deal as what the post-'08 US economy has to offer.
I mean, that could have worked out, but instead they picked a reality TV star whose producers had to redecorate for the show because everything Trump builds looks gaudy and cheap and only knows how to make money by laundering theft and scams through failing businesses before writing them off and running.
They also had to hire someone to change Trump.
everything Trump builds looks gaudy and cheap
Precisely! This is nothing but insult to injury.
I have no love for the Chinese Government, but boy do I hate American oligarchs more.
Uh wait uh Mr Jacket Clown Man, wasn’t this kind of your plan?
You… you’re on the advisory panel.
For AI policy.
… ?
In the future, memory will cost nothing because we will just assume no human beings have any.
- Mr Jacket Clown Man, at some point, presumably.
Absolutelly, these are the consequences of Jensen Huang’s “strategy” and he’s just doing the usual trick of such inept high level managers when the mid and long-term consequences of their strategical ineptitude catch up with them of trying to distance himself from the consequences of his success in shaping American policy (by, lets be fair, just following other inept CEOs of other large Tech companies in the US).
IMHO the single biggest external visible marker that a CEO is strategically inept (i.e. incompetent at the core skill that differentiates mid from upper management) is how talkie-talkie (call it “salesmanship”, if you’re being generous) is their “solution” for everything.
I really hope NVIDIA and its shareholders suffer hard for giving the job of a strategist to a salesman.
This is what happens when there are zero reliable reporters to call bullshit, CEOs make shit up and no-one checks their work. It’s just ‘Jensen Huang says’.
Shocker, cut China off from US designed (not manufactured) chips and they make their own (capitalist competition, remember that old thing), still coming up to speed, but soon, and I’d like some DDR5 (or 6) SamA you dick.
The only thing at play for these pricks is the ‘CUDA moat’ (and the lack of effort from AMD’s RocM, also, you wouldn’t believe how amenable that [ironically] is to LLM coding), and a few hardware tricks (it’s just compute, catch up will happen), but if there’s someone outside your duopoly that dog won’t continue to hunt. Bad thing when a vasty majority of US GDP is AI BS. Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Back to weapons for you, and your military doesn’t know how to make a cheap (anything) drone.
Poor fella. Put nvidia on food stamps I guess.
Chinese AI labs kinda seem like a plot twist in LLM evolution. Their models are quite capable now. They’re not at the levels of American labs’ flagship models yet, but the gap has been narrowing quite a lot.
When OpenAI and Anthropic models are only marginally better, but much pricier, then I would think they’ll gradually shed users (followed by investors).
Ironically, I could imagine a possibility of Nvidia “saving” American AI. If they can take the lead with Nemotron (in like a “post-OpenAI/Anthropic” future when open-source models dominate), then maybe they can survive on chip sales… Though they’d probably have to compete with Chinese chips at that point.
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation, they take existing tech and push to make it more efficient by just throwing people at the problem. It’s basically because they have a culture where critical thinking is not welcome. Makes it difficult to think outside the box. It’s why they still haven’t gotten an EUV machine out of the prototyping phase
Their only real innovative industry is their battery industry.
This is a racist fairy tale that will get you pwned.
Duh. Get out competed bozo
The upside of living in a fantasy world like trump does is that you can fuck around all you want and everybody else finds out. How long has trump been in Brazil?
Nobody in China has an Nvidia GPU, huh?
What a crock of shit.
Remember when people said that we had to let AI companies get away with doing whatever they wanted “or else China would win”?
Turns out they will “win” at this stupid game anyway because they never had any qualms about breaking rules or exploiting US IP and technology in the first place.
This is the kind of old school rhetoric that is a crock of shit.
The time that China is exploiting or stealing US IP are long gone. Just look at battery technology, EV’s, communication technology, pharmaceutical. China is now leading the world. Haven’t you read that the CEO’s from Ford and Honda stated it’s close to impossible to catch up with the innovation in regards to EV’s?
In regards to chips and GPUs, China is using open source technologies to advance. Are they there yet? No and that is in great part due to that clown Rutte who is in the pocket of Trump, and blocked ASML to sell in China. So they are 5 to 10 years behind hardware wise, but they will catch up.
The time that China is exploiting or stealing US IP are long gone.
Ha! Good one!
The fact is that if you manufacture a product in China, it will be knocked off, rebadged and undercut in Chinese shops, offline and online. China also continues to have no problem skirting IP laws and producing goods with popular American or Japanese characters on it.
So what GPUs are being used in China, for business and entertainment alike?
NVidia GPUs, manufactured in Taiwan and back-channelled into China’s black market en masse. https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20250725PD223/nvidia-high-end-ai-chip-china.html
To say that they have 0% market share is bullshit. Spare me the propaganda.
they still do in alot of areas,
Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang said that the company’s market share of AI accelerators in China has now dropped to 0%. The drop is staggering, given that the company owned a lion’s share of China’s AI accelerator market just about two years ago.
“In China, we have now dropped to zero,” said Jensen Huang in an interview with the Special Competitive Studies Project, a bipartisan initiative by American lawmakers aimed at ensuring long-term competitiveness of the U.S. “Conceding an entire market the size of China probably does not make a lot of strategic sense, so I think that has already largely backfired. Maybe it made sense at the time, but I think the policy really needs to be dynamic and needs to stay with the times. I think it would be fairly safe to say that having American chip companies and other companies in China makes a lot of sense.”
It never made any sense…
China used Nvidia because that’s what it had, but they have virtually no patent law and a giant workforce experienced at making chips
Any idiot could have predicted if you cut China off from Nvidia chips, they’d use their own, quickly surpass Nvidia, leaving Americans not being able to ripoff Chinese progress, unless we get our hands on the new Chinese chips if they’re not direct ripoffs of what Nvidia is doing.
Even if they start that way, it’s a fork. China will do things that Nvidia isn’t.
Eventually they’ll diverage enough to separate, unless Nvidia is copying China, which means they’ll always be a lag.
American’s corporate structure is what can’t compete with China. Our corporations own our government, in China the government owns the corporations. And with a one party government that doesn’t have to worry about elections, they can plan decades or longer at a time. Corps by definition only care one financial quarter at a time.
Both countries have rampant corruption and can do a lot better, but having a government in charge of corps will always work out better than corps running a government.
The problem is American corps would rather lose if the only way to win is give up their power in America. Hell, we already saw with Chinese EVs that corps can just make the government outlaw competitors so they don’t have to compete and maintain profits.
If a government controlled corporations, theyd be ok with domestic companies being forced to adapt, or go out of business and be replaced by a new one. In America corporations can no longer fail, and that will eventually cause the country to fail if it’s not fixed.
Two parties is bad enough. I will never, ever trust a one-party government. That’s like — what if conspiracy theories, but they are just public policy? Frankly not unlike our government currently, but I’d prefer more parties than fewer.
More parties is a disaster. The Netherlands is a prime example. Hundreds of parties so no one ever has majority which means they always have to do a coalition. And if course that means hardly anything gets done because there is never consensus. And you can count how many times in the last decade, the Dutch government either resigned or fell. That is why it’s a bit of mess and people have totally lost faith in politics in the Netherlands. The Dutch actually have a real pedophile party - much smaller than the Republican party in the US - but still. There is a pirate party, animal party, party against citizens.
At least in China, shit gets done. There are 5,10, 15 and 25 year plans and generally the government doesn’t deviate from it. Of course every year they discuss and make adjustments but the main points remain. In China’s case it’s self reliance, green energy, technology, infrastructure and social security and services. Makes it easier for business to better anticipate and innovate as you know what the goals are.
Dutch voting form the size of a newspaper
One-party is awesome for you if who you like is in power (or you don’t even think about it). But when they aren’t and/or times are not good, the only way to change is through coup or civil war…not fun, especially in complex societies.
Voting doesnt harm ruling class, changes nothing
I will never, ever trust a one-party government
It depends on the party. Being able to pick from of a dozen different parties of capital is no different from picking from a dozen brands of peanut butter that came out of the same factory.
No single party won’t eventually turn into a mess. Authoritarianism is never going to end well for the population.
Depends on how democratic the mechanisms of the party is. Cuba’s party has only become more democratic as time has gone on, and resulted in better outcomes for the people and enshrining gay rights in a constitutional referendum, which passed with 90%+ in favor. China’s party has certainly became more democratic than in the 2000s when politicians were openly controlled by business.
It’s not useful to analyze parties and states in a vacuum independent of each other, the ultimate proof of how democratic a system is is whether its results favor the people or capital.
Yea when one of the “became more democratic” also involve persecution and incarceration of ethnic groups, it has failed. Again, authoritarianism doesn’t work. You may have stints where it seems okay from the outside but it won’t end in the favor of the people.
No system that challenges Western hegemony could ever “work” so long as your perspective is grounded in its propaganda.
Officially, sure. But we know for a fact massive shipments of Nvidia’s workstation graphics cards have been coming to China for a while. So good job making it slightly more expensive for Chinese companies, I guess?
Sure. Second hand with a commensurate markup.
But, at this point, is China importing more GPUs than it exports? Having a hard time finding the numbers. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Nvidia is facing the same problem in a couple of years that US car manufacturers are facing today - Chinese competitor products selling for 1/5th the price of the US models globally, while the US manufacturers complain about raw materials constraints and labor shortages that Chinese firms don’t grapple with.
Oh, that will definitely happen in the near future. At least one Chinese company is already making solid GPUs, but with terrible drivers. Once they work on the software side, they should be viable for everyday use. Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090, but lower models at half the price.
Good thing you spend last year sucking his little mushroom, Jensen.
