- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.world
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Please, instead of more satirising toxic masculinity, can we have some more depictions of positive masculinity in lead roles like Aragorn from LotR?
Also, please feel free to list some good examples of positive masculinity in replies below because I and others I know could benefit from seeing more of that.
exhibit 1 : American Psycho
Exhibit 2: Fight Club
Patrick Bateman was the satirization of a metrosexual if anything.
He was not masculine at all in the rugged manly sense of the term.
Compare Rambo to Bateman. Rambo is the stereotypical manly man, who burns his own wound with a hot knife or gunpowder.
Patrick Bateman would scream like a little girl and freak out over his body being ruined and scarred.
I honestly think that’s part of the appeal for those who idolize Bateman. He’s particular and vane and envious. We are led to see his flaws as he sees them: extensions of justified righteous indignation at the world’s resistance to his perfection, all. His narcissism fueling disgust for the world and everyone in it.
The jilted pampered white boy is exactly what they identify with.
Evaluate the comparison drawn in the final scene of the film. Bateman confesses again, in-person this time, to his lawyer who blows him off for reasons that could be debated within the narrative. The important bit for our discussion is that, regardless of the reasons for dismissal, the lawyer simply doesn’t believe Bateman is capable of the crimes he confesses to.
Not even recognizing Bateman and mistaking Bateman for someone else the lawyer says: “Bateman’s such a dork, such a boring, spineless lightweight…” “…Oh Christ. He can barely pick up an escort girl, let alone… What was it you said he did to her?”
After some more back and forth Bateman returns to his friend’s table and finds his friends discussing Ronald Reagan’s address regarding the Iran-Contra scandal. The sentiment is how unbelievable it is that someone so unassuming could do something so vile, brazenly lie about it, and almost get away with it.
To be dismissed as incapable while believing oneself cunning and depraved and wholly underestimated. To act on that depravity and take by brutal force. To confess vile crimes that go unpunished because no believes you capable of them… It’s a twisted diamond in the rough story.
That’s not the gritty visual masculinity we normally think of, as you say, but Bateman is rape culture personified and adorned in every tropey “high-class” commecialization of masculinity at the time. Couple that with anemoia for the eighties in a generation raised on algorithmically tuned psychological traps which weaponized toxic masculinity for profit and… Tada!
We strike resonance with a certain brand both of internet-raised narcissist and naive, disaffected, emotionally-immature manchild. Especially young men who’ve been emotionally manipulated into believing alt-right propaganda makes sense of a world they’ve been stymied from understanding.
Women and the folk who don’t categorize themselves will never understand the deep masculane urge of self destruction. Of going down in a “blaze of glory” even if you’re ultimately wrong.
The stereotype of masculinity was always a meme that drove men to destruction. The tribal warriors and knights of ye olde times idealized this type of crap too. It’s been a part of humanity ever since writing was invented, probably longer. It’s a strange part of being human.
It’s because, so long as we serve nature, we aren’t really people. We are expendable warrior drones, and women only have some value, because they are drone factories. Meanwhile, all we are doing is propagating some non-sentient strand of code, that is our objective.
But it does not have to be this way, this was a choice by someone powerful, to keep us animals.
That’s one of many reasons I do not respect structures of power. Who says what is right and what is wrong. Not people who say they have the authority do do so, that’s for sure. Lables like “masculine” or “functioning” are just lables made up by people to categorize and dehumanize others. Everybody’s a person, and everybody has the right to do with their life what they want. But most people don’t see that and blindly follow a path that was laid out for them. Is it “masculine” to fight and die in a war you have no stake in? Or is it stupid? Is it “masculine” to want to protect your loved ones? Or is it just human nature?
This is a deep topic, I could literally write several pages about it, but I’ll spare you my poor attempts at philosphy. Unless that’s what you’re into.
I had plenty of it, and while I really love these topics, I am forced to ration my time.
In other words, TL;DR or I’m not reading.
Time is an illusion. But I understand, people have jobs and families.
Not related to anything: I think this is the peak of my character arc. I’ve been visited by an Angel, I insulted a Pig, and I argued philosophy with the World’s Dumbest Man. I’m pretty sure this is how myths are made.
And if you do find some time to argue philosophy (and bullshit topics in general), please check out https://lemmy.world/c/Hermes_Collective. Judging by your displayed name and what I’ve seen on your profile, you’d feel right at home.
I know, shameless plug, sorry. Just check it out if you find time. Hope it’s not against TOS, because I’m too lazy to check rn. Cheers! :)
I need what you are on!
I don’t think they make sleep depravation in pill form.
Although…
Wait, is this a serious inquiry? Because I could give you an extensive list of mind-expanding substances I allegedly used in the past. I could even tell you a purely theoretical method of acquiring each of them, as well as the effects they have.
And just so we’re clear, I am not offering to sell you non-taxable goods via the internet. It’s a terrible business strategy.
You can send me a private message if you’re interested in exchanging knowledge/information. I will tell you what you want to know, but in exchange I will expect the same.
It would be interesting, but I also don’t need the legal trouble of something I’m not actually buying.
If you had something like ISRIB on the other hand…
Oof the world is full of good examples for this. Like the Torment Nexus, in every genre. South Park is another one - there used to be real Cartman fans. Also some thought it was a children’s TV show.
Cartman is a great character and one that, despite being a complete piece of shit of a human, is likable because the stories are better with him around. He’s also a great depiction of certain segments of society - arrogant, envious, greedy, self centered, manipulative, petty, sore loser, whiny, bitchy - which are too dense to realize he’s supposed to be a parody of them and not a role model.
Not quite the same, but The Matrix and so-called “red-pilled” Republicans make me laugh every time for this reason. The Wachowski sisters have flat out and openly said that The Matrix is a transgender story about the prison of toxic masculinity and escaping it by transitioning. The red pill is Premarin, an estrogen pill from the 90s, and the blue pill is a testosterone steroid (I forget which one), both of which were produced in those exact colors. So every time a conservative talks about being “red-pilled,” they’re actually talking about taking estrogen.
Now the E pills are blue, thus ruining the metaphor, another crime big pharma must answer for.
