And if he isn’t, have the option to voluntarily accept the child as his legally or not to do it?
Look, I’m not gonna pretend this isn’t a messy, painful topic, because it is. And I get why it pisses people off. Nobody wants to be on the hook for 18 years of child support for a kid that isn’t theirs. That’s a totally reasonable thing to be mad about. Hell, I’d be mad too. Being tricked into that is a violation. And yeah, the legal system doesn’t always handle it well. Sometimes it feels like men get the short stick here, and I’m not gonna sit here and tell you that’s not true, because in some cases, it absolutely is. Worth noting though that women on the other hand get the short stick in many other fields, and we’ll never get absolute equality anyway. And certain people dismissing this topic with just “think of the children” is unhelpful. It dismisses real pain and hands over the conversation to the worst-faith actors, who are more than happy to fill the void with rage and simplification.
The “mandatory paternity tests” idea might sound nice and simple solution on the surface. I get the appeal. Rational, factual, reliable. But think about what that actually means. You’re saying every woman who gives birth should automatically be treated like a potential liar. Every kid starts life under a cloud of suspicion. That’s not just a legal change; that’s a cultural one. Marriage is a choice two adults make, with full awareness of what they’re signing up for. Ideally anyway. But a newborn doesn’t get that choice. They don’t get to opt out of the suspicion or the stigma. They just inherit it.
While still not fair towards the guy, I think perhaps it would be better to keep the system as is BUT introduce an additional step where if a child is found to be the result of infidelity, the woman is obligated to pay damages to the man after the child turns 18 (or perishes). Yes, they guy will have to bitterly pay for the kid that isn’t theirs but the woman won’t get away with it scot free. Once the kid is secured, the woman will pay back every penny. Yes, it’s still painful for the guy but at least it would a bit more fair. And yes there are million details and whatabouts but I think it’s a step into the right direction.
You’re saying every woman who gives birth should automatically be treated like a potential liar. Every kid starts life under a cloud of suspicion.
This is one way to look at it but not the only. I imagine people are sometimes incorrect about parentage without any intentional deception or malice. There are poly and swinger folk who are also drinkers out there not remembering some exciting weekends. You could go your whole life making medical, dietary or spiritual decisions based on a false family medical history.
But that’s not an argument for making testing default. Men in such relationships can accept the possibility that the kid isn’t theirs. Or request testing if it’s important to them. This is the parents responsibility and your example is an outlier.
My point was that if the test is mandatory, or even an opt-out rather than opt-in, it creates a culture where the underlying thought is that women on average can’t be trusted to name the biological father.
And certain people dismissing this topic with just “think of the children” is unhelpful. It dismisses real pain and hands over the conversation to the worst-faith actors, who are more than happy to fill the void with rage and simplification.
Fucking this. I have little doubt that OP is a lost cause and is just looking troll by “just asking questions” (as evidenced by the fact that he never responds to any genuine and rational comments and only goes for the cheap shots). But never forget that there are people reading these discussions who legitimately don’t know or understand. If you have had the sufficient education and environment to learn these things before needing to ask about it online, you are privileged. The alt-right/MGTOW/nazi/etc. crowd have cultivating resentment in confused and sidelined young men down to a science. They are eager to provide their twisted answers with a seemingly loving embrace when the mainstream discussion dismisses the whole topic because it’s something that you’re just somehow magically supposed to know regardless of your background.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1053:_Ten_Thousand
I did not… forget this? But I guess you’re talking to the general “you” and not me personally?
Yes. Sorry, didn’t mean to sound like I was lecturing you. I agree with you, broadly speaking. I’ve just been online for a very long time and I’ve seen how these discussions tend to go. I got in my head and wrote to the amalgamation of all the people whose response to topics like these is to shame people for not knowing.
Note the name of OP’s instance and engage at your own risk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way
I didn’t hear about this before today, thanks.
I can’t imagine how pathetic someone would have to be to associate with such a group.
My life was better before I looked up and saw what MGTOW was :).
Now why would an incel be worried about paternity testing? 🤣
I’d like to clue you in on why your post is so distasteful.
It wasn’t until about 50 years ago when women were allowed to get their own credit card without her husband’s permission. And before that, they weren’t able to vote, own property, out divorce unless their man said it was ok. Women have been effectively powerless for 90% of history.
Now that women are legally viewed as individuals, some men find that offensive. They want to go back to owning their wives instead of forming an equal partnership with another person they love.
These people have told you that women do not deserve to be people, and have no doubt provided plenty of examples of women being cruel.
You have hyper focused on this ONE situation that effects less than 1% of the population. Meanwhile we have 700k homeless, 550k abused children, and a myriad of other problems in this world that, if solved, would make the world a better place for so many people, but you’re worried about the ten men who are being a dad to someone else’s offspring. Funny you don’t mention mandatory paternity tests for the thousands of deadbeat dads who abandon the children they DO have.
It should be offered IMO (and definitely not made illegal), but not mandatory. If the truth destroys something, it just wasn’t meant to be.
Please don’t project your weird mistrust of women to the rest of the population
How much does it cost? Who is paying for it?
I don’t think it’s a common enough issue to do mandatory testing.
Can I ask if you are M or F?
M
You don’t think there are a lot of men who are being baby trapped and at charge of kids that aren’t biologically theirs wo knowing it? You expect too much from women IMHO
If you suspect it you should request it. It should not be mandatory.
How often is that happening?
It is more common than what you think, I don’t have the exact numbers because there are not exact numbers about it, but just in my family it happened to two uncles.
Are you extrapolatijg your families experience to the rest of the world?
I’m just saying if two close persons I know have been baby trapped now imagine how people are out there in the same situation, not just because they are from my family just because they are close enough to know, how many are out there which didn’t say anything or didn’t know. There are people who say maybe 1 in 3 men raise kids which are not theirs without knowing. Really I think 1 in 3 are too many but as there is no statistic about it who knows.
No, that’s a breach of the privacy for the father and child. An alleged father can already refuse to accept the legal responsibility for a child. A court could demand that they take a paternity test or accept responsibility, but that would still be that person’s choice.
An alleged father can already refuse to accept the legal responsibility for a child.
That doesn’t get him off the hook financially though. If the mother put his name on the birth certificate, he’d probably have to take a test to prove he’s not the biological father. And if he is, tough.
This is why I support legal paternal surrender. As long as women have access to abortions (legal, easy, free), men should have the financial equivalent. That’s only fair.
That doesn’t get him off the hook financially though. If the mother put his name on the birth certificate, he’d probably have to take a test to prove he’s not the biological father. And if he is, tough.
I looked into it more and realized I misunderstood how it worked. You’re right, a mother can add a man’s name to the birth certificate without his consent, and then the burden of proof is on him to prove that he is not the father, which typically means a paternity test. Obviously that is unfair. I think the better solution is to require the father’s consent before adding their name in the first place, or else making it tentative until it is “ratified” by his consent (or a court order in either case). And only in special situations like the father being dead or unreachable would it resolve without him.
This is why I support legal paternal surrender. As long as women have access to abortions (legal, easy, free), men should have the financial equivalent. That’s only fair.
Well, women don’t always have access to safe abortions, and regardless I don’t think this needs to be tied to that. I think this shouldn’t be treated differently between genders. Either parent should be able to surrender legal responsibility for the child, and if both do so then the child is surrendered to the state. If only one does so, that one should be forced to still financially support the single parent similar to alimony. I don’t think either should be able to voluntarily shed financial responsibility though. At least once they are born, a child has a right to a certain amount of support from both their parents, unless both agree the state would be a better custodian for them.
It would add a lot of work to medical staff with no real benefit to most people.
Not worth it… People can just request it if they want to.
People can also notice that the baby isn’t at all similar to them and request it then when the baby grows up a bit.
No, because what is best for the child?
Now then what is best for the child matters? Yesterday it was a free abortions for everyone YAY!!.
I honestly don’t believe being deleted is the best for the unborn. I believe the best is to be raised by both of their biological parents.
Best thing for a child by far is to be wanted and raised with love. Forcing a woman to bear a child they don’t want is cruel to both.
Abortion may very well be what’s best for the child, but after it’s born it’s too late for that.
Yeah. A newborn is usually better of with two other humans raising it instead of one that up until recently had a support system in place.
I don’t think it’s a wonderful plan, but the kid can’t exactly start passing out resumes to help mom make ends meet. Any other idea involves the government providing goods and services to a single mother and half of the voters really hate that idea.
Ah you’ve got an axe to grind. Good luck. You’re gonna need some real sound arguments to get through this crowd. If what’s best for the child is what matters there should be more social services to support parents so they can be the best they can for their children as well as services and aid for children as they grow up.
What’s best for a child is to be with their mother, even if mom is a drug addict. In today’s world we often force women to have babies and then rip them away from their mothers to punish them and then wonder why a motherless adult that had gone through the foster system is struggling to be a productive member of capitalist society.
Fighting for what’s best for the child doesn’t stop after they’re born, otherwise why even bother? Just abort them. And without support, abortion can very well be what’s best for a fetus, or a bunch of cells.
Want less abortions? Make raising a child and being a good parent financially and logistically easier.
I don’t think distrust needs to be written in law. Doing it on demand seems more than sufficient.
Not just no, but FUCK NO. this whole notion that you can’t be a father unless you sired the child is just HORSESHIT.
That doesn’t seem like it’d be in the child’s best interest.
Even if we do this, paternity tests are not guaranteed correct. This has the possibility to cause so much unneeded drama.
