quite funny for me to read this on a furiphone…
ironic, even
Time for more users to adopt GrapheneOS
GrapheneOS is great and all but I refuse to willingly give google a single dollar for their hardware.
When GrapheneOS can be installed on any device is when I’ll gladly make that switch, and hopefully one day Apple iPhones can run other operating systems.
If only you didn’t have to give google money to be able to install it.
When we were young adults and couldn’t buy our own booze, we made it. Let’s do something like that here.
That is what F-Droid would be, on Android. If it survives…
Of course, we have SailfishOS, postmarketOS, and other small ones, too.
Damn I was not nearly that based at 20. And given that you’re on a Canadian instance and this is about the UK, I’m assuming you’re talking more like 16-17…
My Apple account is probably old enough to vote…
Why is there no privacy respecting solution for age verification? Like the government giving you some sort of token that says you’re over 18 and that’s it?
What if I told you that by regulation, the EU age verification system has to be anonymous and that it’s only the AUKUS countries that are moving forward in a way where anonymity is “a nice to have”.
Denmark’s system, which is a front-runner implementation in the EU, is going to be fully ZKP.
And yes it’s basically built with tokens.
You identify with a government system in an app. The services issues you signed tokens that are anonymous. You hand these anonymous tokens over to the sites that demand proof of age.
How are you supposed to abuse the data of people that you can’t even identify…?
Anyone have a more in-depth technical description of how that works? I’m interested.
That sounds great. I don’t follow the topic closely (probably I should), so wasn’t aware of these developments. This should be brought up in all discussions about age verification, so everyone knows there are better options.
Some people will feel that it’s not ideal, as you still have to trust the government, opposed to full anonymity, but that is a bit of a separate problem.
Ultimately someone has to vouch for “yes, this person is 18+”. People can’t self-attest, except through crappy biometric, so at some point a government ID has to be involved.
I’d trust my government over a credit reference agency that literally makes revenue from selling access to your private data.
Yes, and governments, at least democratic ones, represent the interests of their people, so at least on paper this is the correct way to structure things. Then you use the channels to government to ensure it’s regulated properly. If this is not possible or there’s no trust, there’s a larger problem.
Because its not about age verification, its about tracking and controlling you and making a privacy respecting solution isn’t compatible with that.
So there should be a rebuttal demanding a privacy respecting age verification token, instead of just arguing against age verification, which technically does have a point. This way it’s disabled as excuse to sneak in the other things.
No, we still need to be against it. I said tracking and controlling, not just tracking.
They are already blocking resources that shouldn’t be blocked from youth, and even a privacy centric method would still let them do that, and then expand it to anything at a whim in the future.
We don’t want the internet built on this infrastructure, it would br a disaster.
Okay, it’s 2 topics then, the privacy, and basically adding a mandatory authorization layer to the internet derived from your real identity.
To some extent this already exists for movies or say to buy alcohol, getting a driving license etc. in the real world, where people often also have to verify their age. So here it could be asked on what exact basis the internet should work differently.
The basis is its how the world communicates and they become the gate keepers to communication and knowledge. Its like book banning on topics they don’t like but on a scale much more massive.
They’re already banning internet content from people that shouldn’t be about sexual health because its not about protecting kids its about controlling them and people.
You gotta be a good sheep and they’re going to do their best to make you one.
Because then you can share the token and everyone can use it
I’m sure a more robust solution is possible though.
Personal ids can also be used by non-owners, not much different than this theoretic age verification token. But yeah, ideally it would have a security layer to sufficiently confirm ownership.
Ah tbh I just realised that with the tokens being unique you could still limit accounts per token to 1, achieving the same effect as using real ID.
There is!, one of the officially recognised and approved ways is credit card verification, however afaik only steam is doing that.
i’ve seen screenshots of ios users being verified due to having their credit cards as payment methods tied to their name, which is a hell of a lot better than an ID
I mean a dedicated, government issued age verification token that doesn’t reveal any data to the third party other than you are allowed access age wise.
This is what happens when your phone is no longer YOUR phone
It’s literally a government mandate, they can’t not do it without leaving the market
And of all the big names, I trust Apple the most to not give my shit to The Man
Apple is the man. Google is the man. The men claiming they are the men are just little pocket puppets.
Open source software like GrapheneOS is the only software you should ever trust to not be government spyware.
Tim Apple and Don Orange
Dude, apple IS the man
Apple has done a fantastic job surrounding their privacy reputation. Problem is, they absolutely bent the knee and kissed the ring.
The only way out is either going with custom roms on an android or a Linux phone, … anything along those lines (you know, IT stuff that let’s you actually do stuff). Or don’t participate.
Teens can travel alone and setup their phone in France or Ireland, or buy their phone from a dealer. All the cool kids will have free phones and be on snapchat, forcing everybody else to follow suit.
IT GETS TO A POINT
Looks like the ways they’re doing this is via credit card or account age. I wanted to keep my current phone until it died before switching to something else but fuck me, who knows what nonsense they’ll make us do in the near future.
no problem, I’ll just use apps from outside of the App Store, right?
You could, if you lived in the EU :)
The UK government is so god damn dumb.
evil*
Both
they arent dumb tho. this is the dystopia they want to build.
For who? Themselves? Are their lives so miserable they just want to see people suffer?
if a phone is tied to a svc acct like a telco provider- age verification should be automatic as THAT provider cannot open an acct for a child.
FUCKING THANK YOU!
I’m not in favour of any of the age restriction stuff UK government is doing.
Good argument, but:
Phones in the UK can be bought without a contract and untied to any network.
Pay as you go SIM cards can be bought without a contract.
Credit cards used to make purchases online require users to be 18 or over. Debit cards on the other hand can be issued to those under 18 (but a bank account will require evidence of ID, address, age). https://www.gohenry.com/uk/blog/financial-education/what-age-can-you-get-a-debit-card-in-the-uk
can a debit card be created by someone under 18? ie does a parent have to do it then give johnny a card? can a bodega owner sell a prepaid to a minor, and can prepaids be used?
just wondering where up the chain the responsibility lies. i’m all for corps being held to task, but also parents. if i handed my kid a phone it was my responsibility.
now he had phones that he acquired. i saw them. so i know it is largely irrelevant my thoughts on chain of concern.
in short: this is a terrible tar pit of gov horseshit sold in the “protect the kids” camp but really is “build a bigger fascist state db…”
A parent can do the age verification captcha for Johnny. All of this is bullshit once they start thinking any of this will stop kids who have the help of an adult (actually, already is imo). Anyone ever hear of kids getting adults to buy alcohol for them in the past?
Wow, thats fucked. I hope Australia doesn’t decide to do this as well. This shit is happening so quickly at the moment
I think they did this first, at least they passed the law first. Our “left center” government in action.
me too but i’m not overly optimistic. i don’t think there is a strong enough culture of anti-surveillance
> can’t have apps without an account
> cave have an account without a loicenseWill this finally kill off the “Apple is private enough” mantra I always hear?
unfortunately, that is not how cults work.
