Late on Friday afternoon, Justice Alexandre de Moraes – who has been engaged in a dispute with X’s owner, Elon Musk, since April – ordered the “immediate, complete and total suspension of X’s operations” in the country, “until all court orders … are complied with, fines are duly paid, and a new legal representative for the company is appointed in the country”.
He gave Brazil’s National Telecommunications Agency 24 hours to enforce the decision. Once notified, the agency must pass the order on to the more than 20,000 broadband internet providers in the country, each of which must block X.
In an interview with the TV channel Globonews, the agency’s president, Carlos Manuel Baigorri, said the order had already been passed on to internet providers.
“Since we’re talking about more than 20,000 companies, each will have its own implementation time, but … we expect that probably over the weekend all companies will be able to implement the block,” he said.
Justice Moraes also summoned Apple and Google to “implement technological barriers to prevent the use of the X app by users of the iOS and Android systems” and to block the use of virtual private network (VPN) applications.
The decision imposes a daily fine of R$50,000 (£6,800) on individuals and companies that attempt to continue using X via VPN.
sounds feasible except the “blocking the use of vpn apps” part?
Yeah, that line was particularly concerning. I’m all for watching Elon get a Brazilian beatdown, but that feels like a pretty large overstep.
Justice Moraes had also said that any person in Brazil who tried to still use X via common privacy software called a virtual private network, or VPN, could be fined nearly $9,000 a day. But after swift backlash across Brazil, including from academics who have supported him, he reversed that move in an amended order late Friday.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/30/world/americas/brazil-elon-musk-x-blocked.html
Good to see someone listening to people more knowledgeable than them.
He went back on that part (in Portuguese):
At best that’s just unclear. Blocking VPNs isn’t impossible, just impractical. And it’s not like Brazil just became China. At worst, the just made accessing X impracticality expensive for its users— which, in Brazil, is a lot of people. In typical Brazilian fashion, they’re hitting Elon in the wallet.
The main goal is to get the convicted offenders to not make posts anymore, and if they do the law will be able to find and punish them after the fact.
I’m talking about the accounts that the courts asked X to suspend but X denied.
Yeah, this left a bad taste.
At least he revoked this section of the decision a couple hours later.
Why? VPN is not a magic bullet. Wait, did you believe their marketing??
can you elaborate?
as it is, your comment is not comprehensible. Why what? Whose marketing? Marketing for VPN? “Magic bullet” for what purpose?
VPNs can be blocked by governments or worse, the data can be decrypted giving you a false sense of security. In any case if the governments wants to it can easily see if you connect to a VPN and give you trouble just for that. Same goes for TOR.
TOR, you write. How are they going to block TOR?
when a government blocks one vpn server, another sprouts in its place. Not like some governments aren’t trying. Yes, they “give trouble” to some people in some places for VPN or TOR use but that may be preferable to those people, compared to what they may have to go through if their connection wasn’t encrypted.
here the question was about blocking VPNetworks to prevent Xitter use and that sounded implausible (the judge also understood this afterwards).
VPNs can be blocked by governments or worse, the data can be decrypted giving you a false sense of security.
How would they decrypt this data without having access to the VPN server itself (or probably your device)?
The handful of people so addicted and desperate for xitter that they turn to TOR to get their daily dose of poison can probably just be ignored.
Never said they can block TOR. They run TOR entry nodes as honeypots. They run “cool looking” VPN servers as honeypots. They definitely have backdoors for many encrypted services. Dude, this isn’t 2005 anymore.
And don’t forget, authorities can and will use just metadata (what you connected to when) to prosecute you without ever caring what you actually transmitted.
But go ahead and call me clueless, I am not trying to educate here. Just annoyed that people trust these technologies so much without really understanding how they get caught.
Never said they can block TOR
that’s what my first comment you replied to was . I wrote that blocking VPN (or TOR) wasn’t feasible
VPNs can be blocked by governments or worse, the data can be decrypted giving you a false sense of security. In any case if the governments wants to it can easily see if you connect to a VPN and give you trouble just for that. Same goes for TOR.
👆
They run “cool looking” VPN servers as honeypots. They definitely have backdoors for many encrypted services. Dude, this isn’t 2005 anymore.
some authorities try to use metadata for prosecution, yes, but it doesn’t suffice. They have to correlate undeniably that metadata and whatever information they may have collected from other nonencrypted platforms.
one entry node on TOR that collects the crumbles that passes through this node… good luck to anybody trying to make sense of that mess.
But go ahead and call me clueless, I am not trying to educate here. Just annoyed that people trust these technologies so much without really understanding how they get caught.
I’ve been following these cases for years now, you write “i’m not trying to educate”, but it seems like you’re trying to inform the clueless among us about the dangers of using VPN or TOR. With a claim like that, it would be nice to have some reliable sources linked in your comments
Maybe you should provide sources for your hilarious stance that VPNs and TOR provide absolute protection for anyone in any situation. I guess the l33t hax0rz influencers you follow on TikTok told you to think that so now you want to defend VPNs and TOR against all critical thought wherever you can, and that’s cute as fuck, but those people are only trying to sell their VPN to you. Don’t be so naive, or are you 12?
When you’re too corrupt, even for Brazil, that really does say something.
They’re more WhatsApp people than Twitter people anyway.
But this is pretty standard legal stuff. Musk just doesn’t think he has to send a lawyer down to argue his case. He can blow it off, thinking that he’s simply above the law.
It isn’t even corruption, per say. It’s just entitlement slamming into another state’s basic sovereignty.
They’re more WhatsApp people than Twitter people anyway.
I thought they are orkut people?
Orkut lmao that’s a deep cut. Remember my Brasilian friend growing up using it and I was like wtf is this.
Well, maybe I’m just too GenX, but, to me, that’s a distinction without a difference. WhatsApp is texting with extra steps, and Twitter is for Nazis. I’ve never used the former and gave up the latter along with FB and insta early on during covid. Reddit was my last social whatever, and I jumped that ship last June for this last shout.
I’ve never had tiktaky or snapsnore. Most of my time on my phone is spent either here or listening to news podcasts— which is pretty much what I did as a teenager: listening to NPR as my morning routine then a news/music mix throughout the day.
Hmmm…. How unusual and a little confusing to be both impressed and disappointed in oneself… well that’s why some of our best paid scientists are furiously genetically engineering new strains of cannabis! So I don’t have to deal with this shit!
WhatsApp is texting with extra steps, and Twitter is for Nazis.
No shortage of Nazis on Whatsapp. And not the Discount Donny Groypers, either. Real Boys From Brazil. People with an actual Nazi pedigree.
How unusual and a little confusing to be both impressed and disappointed in oneself
Eh. We all eat from the trough of ideology.
lol, if you say so. I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels a little let down with myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You know how Americans have ZERO base to stand on talking about other countries anymore? Didn’t get the memo? You guys are the bottom of the barrel now in every aspect. Sheesh.
Spread it to Everybody from Brazil: Leave Xitter, JOIN MASTODON!
How to join Mastodon:
There is some misleading information in there. Probably better to just get straight to the point with the ‘standard’ https://joinmastodon.org/ link.
I think that site has incorrect information. They wrote “you need to sign up separately on every server on Mastodon to see their community posts” but surely that’s the opposite of what the fediverse is about? Mastodon’s server page even says that with a single account you can see everything.
How about not using “Social Media” at all? Too out there?
Are you aware that Lemmy is social media too?
Yes and I hate my guts I keep coming back to it
Then it seems like it’s too out there
People seem to be going to bluesky, even the president is there
Is Xitter pronounced Shitter? Makes South Park prophetic again.
Of course it is.
Obrigado
Tchau, Elon
“Alexandre de Moraes, the court’s top judge, has also ordered daily fines for people or businesses in Brazil that use virtual private networks (VPNs) or other methods to access X while the site is banned in the country”
how do they imagine vpn’s work down there in ole brazil
Individuals will be nigh impossible to properly handle, but a registered business with a known presence on X won’t be difficult at all.
They aren’t saying they will fine for the use of VPNs, but the continued use of X through alternative means.
They thankfully went back on the decision of blocking vpn
Lets hope the EU will follow soon. Brazil leads the way!
The brazil Judiciary want some profiles blocked. Is that what the EU should demand too?
Blocking profiles seems heavy handed, and best aimed at the individual, not the provider.
Well, there are quite some profiles doing nothing but spreading hate and misinformation in ways that exceed the limits of free speech, and blocking them would be a good way to stay within the law. Many European countries have quite strong opinions on people spreading Nazi propaganda, for example. Or call for committing crimes or bodily harm. The EU demands removal of such post and even accounts, but X is getting slower and more reluctant in following the laws. I think, banning X in the EU is overdue.
in ways that exceed the limits of free speech
I think this part is key. X is hiding behind US laws which Brazil and the EU have very little say in.
They can’t hide if they have presence in or provide for Brasil/EU.
To be fair, X didn’t “miss the deadline”.
They never gave a shit in the first place.
Wait, there are 20,000 ISPs!?
idk where that number came from, but there’s a survey from 2022 listing 11,630 providers. That would average 2.08 per municipality and makes sense imo. The larger-scale telecom infrastructure is still an oligopoly though.
I’m guessing they mean regional subsidiaries, Brazil is big, but not that big.
Brazil has a lot of small, very small, ISPs. There was a law some time back that boosted the market for smaller ISPs. On my street I have a small ISP that only runs cables and internet to a portion of my neighborhood. However, those smaller ISPs are usually buying their connection from the few giant companies in the business and redistributing it through their own means. Crazy part though: often they have better prices and support when compared to the giant ISPs they’re buying their internet access from.
105% the landmass of the lower 48 states of USA.
Brazilian sounds like a lot.
It’s 7 times less than German
What are you talking about, brasil has 214m inhabitants. Germany 84m
Oh, right, forgot about this for a minute😅
Good
So if you’re are Brazilian nazi, go get a Windows phone
Late on Friday afternoon, Justice Alexandre de Moraes – who has been engaged in a dispute with X’s owner, Elon Musk, since April
A Justice isn’t in a dispute with anyone, Guardian. A Justice rules based on law. In the case of Brazil, the Justice system is based on Roman law, as opposed to Common law that is in effect in UK and USA. That means a judge has even less power, as they are tied to existing legislation and can’t rule unless there’s a specific codified law that allows them to rule in that way for that crime or misdemeanor.
I’m kind of on the fence with this one.
As much as I dislike Twitter/X and it’s owner; their ‘crime’ is refusing to silence the political opponents of those currently in power, then further refusing to pay fines for that decision… Decisions, at least in principle, I agree with.
That said: I haven’t actually seen the content that’s at the center of this dispute; the posts of those political opponents. I’m also not very familiar with Brazils politics, so perhaps there’s context I’m missing.
musk has no problems with taking down political opponents’ xitter accounts when the request is coming from “right wing” governments (rather authoritarian or far-right)
he doesn’t care about freedom of speech, he only cares about his kind of speech. If he refused all take down requests, i would agree with you
As far as I understand this is a right-wing authoritarian gov silencing left-wing opponent’s.Am i mistaken?/pre-post edit: Yes, yes I am.
That certainly throws out any bit of sympathy I may of had… Though I still think they made the right decision to refuse to comply.
¯\(-_-)/¯ oh well.
their ‘crime’ is refusing to silence the political opponents of those currently in power
First they came for the christofascists who attempted a coup, and I didn’t speak out 😔
their ‘crime’ is refusing to silence the political opponents of those currently in power, then further refusing to pay fines for that decision…
Isn’t it natural: if you refuse to obey numerous court orders and pay your fines, you’ll get even worse court orders. This is not exactly the way to challenge the reasons for these other orders.
It seems that the strongest justification is that they closed their local branch, and have no legal representation here in Brazil, which is required by law for them to be able to operate.
they closed their local branch
That was due to threats of arrest for not paying these fines, that were issued for refusing to silence critics.
I was trying to skip past all those middle steps and get to the root of the issue. What started it all.
If that’s what you think is wrong with Twitter, you might be one of the bad guys
that’s what you think is wrong with Twitter
?
What is ‘that’ exactly…?
I’ve said nothing about what’s wrong with twitter. I’ve said I agree with refusing to silence political opposition for those in power, at least in principle. I’ve also, at least tried, to be pretty clear I’m likely missing some contex; so that may be a bit of a misinterpretation of the situation.
Gotta love the lemmy hive mind being pro censorship just to hate on elon
Censorship isn’t the same as consequences.
censorship of what? Twitter, now X?
when i was on twitter, before elon took it over, i remember reporting many openly fascist accounts and they used to regularly go down (to reappear under a different name with some new numbers attached). Hate speech, racist slurs, calls to violence… verbal scum. You call taking that shit down “censorship”?
Justice Alexandre de Moraes had issued a court order forcing the site formerly known as Twitter to block several users as part of his investigation into the former president Jair Bolsonaro’s attempts to stay in power after his 2022 election defeat.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/08/elon-musk-brazil-x-jair-bolsonaro
it looks like they’re trying to protect their democracy? Shutting down a coup and it’s enablers (sounds familiar?) isn’t censorship.
It is when you’re on team coup…
Elon, free speech advocate, this you?
This has less to do with Elon and more to do with twitter itself. Why were other platforms created in the first place like Lemmy? Could it be to decentralize these platforms so that no one entity can control them, including the government? This whole shit show with Brazil shows us exactly why these platforms should exist. The oppression of the people need to stop.
Instead of complaining about others and offering no contributions to this platform, I’d love to hear your take on this and start an open discussion. It seems like you have something on your mind, so why not speak it?
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