Ha! its almost as if we have hit a point where the new stuff is not as good as the old. DD4 is really good, but now we will be forced into DD5 and all the shit CPU and boards that come with it.
I love me some Dance Dance Revolution, but I had no idea it was coming back
Please tell me why…do we build castles in the sky…
[Darude - Sandstorm intensifies]
i_O is lovely
This version of the article misses important information from the original source Trend Force who issued a report on DDR4 prices which news sites have been quoting.
In addition to the supply constraints mentioned, the original report also cited Trump’s tarrifs which alongside the manufacturing supply slump could cause panic buying in the US specifically. This is speculation but based on the possibility Trump could “issue new tariffs or restrictions related to production capacity against China. This, in turn, may trigger another round of panic buying,”
The original report was posted to twitter with “Tarriff fears may trigger further panic buying”
It’s odd to talk about panic buying and not explain where that has come from. Also odd not to mention Trump’s tariffs when that was a key part of the original report in June.
Panic buying == the republicans’ idea of economic stimulus
tomshardware is known garbage reporting
I always take it as good clickbait. The articles never have good info, but the headlines are never outrageous IMO. Just kind of a “Tom’s said X, let me do some research.”
Tariffs are irrelevant when manufacturing is ending.
Shouldn’t be a problem for me - I plan to skip DDR4 and go straight to DDR5, or maybe what comes after, at some point. Still running 32GB DDR3 here.
I am in the same boat. I am waiting for a CPU that properly handles more then 128gb of memory while not costing 5 grand.
What kind of speeds you get on that old DDR3?
I wouldn’t waste any money on DDR4 at this point. The only excuse I could think of is if you have a motherboard that requires DDR4 and your current RAM is not working. Otherwise, get a motherboard that supports DDR5 and you’re good.
Which would also require a new CPU depending on the current setup. And rebuilding the whole PC just to upgrade the memory?
Get a new case, and fan, and maybe a liquid cooling setup too. And switch operating systems while you’re at it. Might as well upgrade to larger SSDs. And it’s a good opportunity to go down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole as well.
That’ll be 3500, and 2 months of tweaking please.
What stage is after ‘owning more mechanical keyboards than you have excuses for using them’?
Hmm. I’ll let you know when I figure that out because that’s the stage I am at?
Ergonomics, forget the gaming gear and move into healthier computing. New office chair, standing desk, adjustable pneumatic monitor arms, fatigue mat, clean up wiring, vertical mouse ball, split keyboards, desk organizers. It never ends
Split ergo keyboard is next on my list in fact
Yeah, when you want to upgrade your PC but the parts in your PC don’t support upgrading, you’ll have to replace those parts. Where’s the issue?
The issue is that’s a weird alternative to just buying some DDR4 RAM.
We don’t want to be stuck making DDR4 RAM forever, or mobos that only use DDR4 RAM, etc.
There comes a time where you have to just move on to new hardware.
Sure, not forever obviously. I’m not suggesting that. But why right now when I already have a DDR4 setup that works fine and just needed some more RAM for some applications? It just seems overkill to replace everything now for questionable benefit when I could always buy new kit later.
Buy some then, but just accept that since it’s very old tech that is being discontinued you will pay more.
Correct. Yes.
… But also with a lot of other perks and some downsides… if you are willing to consider a different paradigm for a pc build.
I say: Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.
I present to you…
… the Minisforum BD 795i SE.
https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-motherboard
https://www.amazon.com/MINISFORUM-Motherboard-BD795i-SE-PCIe4-0/dp/B0DQ8WXMKP
ITX Mobo + soldered on AMD 7945hx processor, outperforms by a significant margin any standard cpu+mobo combo you could get for the current price, which is under $400 pre tax.
So thats a mobo, high powered labtop AM4 cpu, that uses ddr5 sodimm ram.
Oh and you can just slot any ole normal GPU into its PCIe x16 v5.0 slot, its got two standard SSD M2 2280 gen 4 slots you can put your existing SSD(s) in.
There you go, for your consideration, there’s your upgrade/sidegrade path, or your framework for just a new build, given that GPUs now basically cost as much or more than … everything else in a pc combined.
…
Pop out your old mobo, this thing is ITX so it’ll probably fit in your old case, though that isn’t guaranteed.
Grab 32gb (2x16) of 5200/5400/5600 sodimm ddr5 ram for roughly $90 to $110.
(You could go as high as 2x48gb = 96gb but frankly 95% of people will be a ok with 32gb)
Sell your now apparently appreciating in value standard form ddr4 ram.
Grab a noctua 120mm nf-f12 pwm fan for $20, or some equivalent from your preferred fan company, slap that on the massive built in cpu heatspreader, you’re good to go.
Sell old cpu heatsink/fan or aio loop.
You may lose the ability to run… an extensive argb case fan setup without some finagling on that front, but who cares, you wont need all of them, this is a very energy and heat efficient cpu.
If you’ve got some kind of nest of internal archive HDDs, yeah, that may be a bit of a problem too, but realistically, not too many people do that, and you can put an internal HDD into a ~$20 enclosure and just turn it into an external hardrive, something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/X-MEDIA-XM-EN3451-BK-3-5-Inch-SATA-Enclosure/dp/B00ARNCYEU
Oh and also switching to this kind of paradigm, paired with say a non XT AMD 9070, this’ll do basically all gaming you could want at 1440p, and will almost certainly substantially lower your total setup power draw… if you’re maybe also worried about just general rising energy prices.
Which you probably should be.
You can also now consider just downsizing your rig’s case, and power supply, to a portable ITX form factor, or an mATX form factor, should the idea of your PC not weighing 60+ pounds appeal to you.
There are a good number of ITX cases that will fit most full size GPUs, some via a riser cable, some not even needing one.
AMD is still putting out some AM4 CPUs just because it’s cheap for them to do so. They can run its chiplets off an old node, so no big deal. It’s still a halfway decent budget option, though that may change with DDR4 going out of manufacturing.
Yup, still happily running a DDR4 build and am considering upgrading to one of the 3D chips at some point.
Last time I did a simulation few months ago, DDR4 motherboards (and memory if I recal) were still considerably cheaper than DDR5.
Also get a motherboard made in Taiwan 🇹🇼
A good reason for staying with DDR4 at this point in time is if you need faster boot times. DDR5 makes computers boot slower because it’s less stable and needs more work during POST to get stable.
In many cases it’s not a requirement though, and the speed improvements of DDR5 after boot outweigh the extra boot time.
You mean memory training?
Thats only really an issue during first boots or after a reset due to FW updates (or you didnt turn off memory training after each boot).There are much more steps than just training. Even after training you still have slower boot speeds.
Can’t say that my PC (r7 7800x3d) boots any slower than my company issued notebook (i5 1235U).
Anecdotally the same for my older PC which had DDR4 (i5 6th gen)
Initial Training isn’t done on every start. Training only happens when you change the configuration.
There are much more steps than just training. Even after training you still have slower boot speeds.
I thought this was about dance dance Revolution at first?
It is, this is the latest version, Dance Dance Revolution 4: G.SKILL edition.
Came here to say “Wait, aren’t we on like Dance Dance Revolution 20?” DDR4 had some bangers, but shouldn’t affect the solar industry.
I hope 16 gigs is good for a while.
I have 64 and I have rarely ever used as much as 16.
you must have correctly moved on from Chrome
I also have 64, but I’ve seen up to 34 in use a couple times. I could have stayed with 48gb, but the timings/cas latency was much better on the 64gb kit, than running mismatched sizes across 4 slots
How is it 2025 and people still don’t understand how RAM works?
If you’ve got 64GB of RAM, ideally you want to be using nearly all of that 64GB at all times.
Explain why.
Unused RAM is wasted RAM. If you’ve got 64GB of RAM but your system never uses more than 8GB of RAM, you don’t need 64GB of RAM and you’re not getting any benefit from it.
How does it follow then that one should use nearly all of it at all times? Sometimes I need all the memory, sometimes I don’t. Sure, I don’t get the benefit all the time. Same as I don’t have four passengers in my car at all times.
I think the point is, if you’re not carrying 4 passengers all the time, why the fuck did you buy a car when you could have bought a unicycle instead?
It’s not like I’m manually clearing things out of the ram. And before the power outage last weekend I had an up-time over 2 months.
Is there a way to have the OS utilize more?
I regularly use over 16-24GB of my 32 GB, and considering I just had to replace 4 8s with 2 16s, I’m honestly kinda tempted to get another pair just to have knowing the shit that’s coming down the pipe.
That’s reassuring, gotta make sure I take care of mine. The pc market has been too messy the last few years.
Yeah, by the time it becomes an issue you’ll be ready to upgrade anyway. There are few use cases for as much RAM as I have. I only bought it to fuck around with VM’s. I’m probably skipping ddr5 and am5 so you’re in good company.
16 is minimum and 32 is recommended if you do much pc gaming, browsing, or torrenting. Things with multiple programs. A single browser and steam open. I regularly hit 16 to 20gb on mint and librewolf. I rarely never see a use past 32gb. I find that to be the sweet spot right now. Anything higher than 32 is better spent on ddr5 upgrade. Caveat being if you run some serious programs but that’s overly rare even by today’s software.
I have 8GB in my laptop running mint, its used for browsing, office work, 3D print slicing, and occasionally I torrent a file from it…it is absolutely no issue whatsoever and it never even breaks 4GB use unless it’s actively slicing a 3D model. 16GB minimum I can agree with for gaming, but for desktop use as mentioned above you can easily get by with less.
You can run it on 8GB. Doesnt mean you won’t benefit from more.
Your system outsources the memory to swap space or is memory starved and needs to unload programs.
It might mean you won’t benefit from more. If it’s got 4GB of headroom, why would adding more help?
I could cut your desk helf in half.
Sure you can fit your keyboard and maybe your mouse on it but how about any additional documents?
Might be a bit annoying to work with?That doesn’t make sense to me. If I have my keyboard and mouse comfortably on half a desk and still have room on the other half for all my little projects, why do I need more desk space?
You don’t have the other half anymore.
You said you are very comfortable with 8GB.
Why you need 8 more?
for desktop use as mentioned above you can easily get by with less.
Sure, as long as you’re willing to deal with the performance hit of constantly swapping to disk.
Even SSD drives are a magnitude slower that any modern RAM stick, so you’re adding TONS of processing time by running that little memory. And gods help you if your swap is on spinning rust…
If that was the case I wouldn’t have 4GB of idle ram just sitting in my PC. There is no unloading to swap when 50% of available ram is unused.
you did notice the person youeare replaying to is using linux, right?
they are correct, 16gb goes a loooooong way in linux. I know begause I too have 16 on m* work and gaming rig and ram has never been a bottleneck
your comments sound like typical windows experience
Because windows caches aggressively.
Aw man, i saw 32gb DDR4 for 50€ a few months ago. Now its at 90€.
Good thing is that i just dont need more ram right now.
It’s about 50€/16GB over here in France. DDR5 goes for 75€ and upwards. Used is a bit cheaper, especially for the SODIMM.
That reminded me that this exists.
Wow. I wonder how well that’ll work out, like stability, need to lower frequency…
Did this also happen when DDR3 was phased out?
It happens every time different types of ram are phased out. The price drops for a while until excess inventory is sold off and then prices increase due to scarcity. You wouldn’t see it with SSDs because new models tend to be backward compatible.
I think DDR3 only became more expensive than DDR4 when there were no new motherboards to support them.
AI is speeding up the process of retiring DDR4 if I am not wrong.
care to explain a bit more?
AI is the culprit. Memory manufacturers prefer to use their available production capacity to make DDR5 and HBM memory. Both forms of faster memory play a role in modern (AI) systems. DDR5 is also the standard for modern computers, but HBM memory is particularly popular for AI accelerators.
Manufacturers have no motivation to increase DDR4 capacity. DDR5 and HBM5 have more customers, and manufacturers who want the legacy memory have no choice but to pay a premium.
Source: https://itdaily.com/news/business/ai-maakt-ddr4-duurder-dan-ddr5/
I’ve seen the claim around but I’m highly skeptical of it. DDR5 is far too slow for anything where memory bandwidth really matters, any newly produced chip that’s gonna be used for AI is on HBM3 or HBM3e, or possibly GDDR6/GDDR7 if it’s a GPU pulled from the consumer segment. HBM5 is still a very, very early research project and is certainly not being produced yet.
Can confirm. I got a quote a few weeks ago and then went to buy last week and they bumped up the price about 20%.
Glad I saw the light and switched to a gaming laptop a few years ago.
I stopped using a computer and been only buying flagship phones for the past 8 years. you can’t beat my foresight.
