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I was a diehard fan of the show and the books. Mostly the books. The show, I stopped loving after the midway point of season 4 when it dawned on me that these fucks had no idea what they were doing and worse yet: they didn’t actually care.
That the only reason the show had been this good up until now was because they had more or less translated the book into script directly and George had also been with them in the writers room right up until their “creative differences” in season 4.
I originally stopped watching after suffering through season 5 and only went back because my friends begged me to watch it with them and I was the ASOIAF expert in the group. When Arya killed the Night King I quietly turned it off and never finished it.
I think it hit me so hard because had I spent almost a decade being a super dedicated fan who would spend a lot of my free time deep diving into analyses and studying the worldbuilding, listening to interviews and talks with George, listening to fan podcasts that did deep dives, reading and re-reading the books while taking my own notes and making my own theories. It had really helped me through a very very dark period in my life where I felt lost and like I didn’t have a purpose at all. It might sound a bit dumb, but yeah. It was one of many little things in my life that helped me hold on to it and not just peace out, you know.
And to realize that Dumb and Dumber didn’t actually care and that they rushed the shit out of the show and pooped out season 8 because they wanted to move on to star wars (lol how did that go for them?) that was just so painful. Not just for myself, but for George too. The cast and crew who dedicated so much blood sweat and tears to this franchise and for the fans like me who loved this world so much and got inspired to write and build worlds ourselves while escaping from things in our real lives that hurt.
And it just got farted out like that when there was no reason for it.
I am not kidding when I say that up until recently when Trump announced for a second time that he wants to annex Greenland from my country, the way Dumb and Dumber treated GoT was the angriest I had ever been. Goofy as it sounds. .
It literally killed my interest in reading books and watching movies and TV shows. It took me three years to start watching movies again regularly and I am generally known among friends and colleagues as the movie buff. I’m the one you ask for movie recommendations. GoT killed my interest in movies for three years. It’s better nowadays, but I still don’t watch TV shows and I rarely read. If I do I try to stay away from series. Only exception was Earthsea recently. But yeah.
The last time I dove into the ASOIAF world was when George released Fire and Blood. I haven’t touched it since and I will probably never rewatch the show nor re-read the books. It’s just such a bitter feeling everytime I see anything from that franchise now.
It was complete bullshit
I skipped it. I’ve even rewatched the other season, I simply refuse to watch the last.
Don’t wanna form your own opinion?
Don’t want to waste my time for disappointment
I don’t know how actors contracts etc. work, so I am genuinely curious. Is refusing not an option for them? Surely most of these actors already have enough money…
They’d get sued most likely
It would be like walking out during a billion $ project that depends on you as a freelancer.
In a VERY small industry where everyone knows everyone, and there are thousands of applicants literally willing to suck dick to get hired.It would also have penalties for breaking the contract which could be very high, plus if you tank a major production without good reason your career is probably over
Although here’s hoping Nick Frost does the right thing.
Are you referring to him playing Hagrid?
Can you elaborate?
I still think it would have been a better ending if the white walkers killed everyone and took over. Just stepping over bodies of favorite characters as they get seated on the iron throne.
Like the red wedding or the end of season 1…
That would have been a shit ending. But you are right, it would have been much better than we got.
I think it could have been done well if you had the conflict from Danerys and Cersei basically leave humanity open to the whitewalkers invasion. Essentially set up the fall of man due to a power struggle.
Would have worked a bit with the overall narrative that the game of thrones doesn’t matter if there is nothing left to claim at the end.
And here’s me: I haven’t even seen series 1-7! I saw a bit of one episode but changed channels when I saw one of the props was poorly made out of Styropor:-(
I saw up to season 3, maybe 4. I stopped because nothing happened.
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Dragon lady was still in desert towns.
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The wall was still snowy with no sign of zombies.
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Someone tried to take over a town but failed, so nothing changed.
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Lots of people got murdered at a wedding without any effect on the plot.
The small girl training to be an assassin was interesting, but done better in Hanna or Leon.
This is an insane take. Literally so much happens in the first three seasons. Maybe I happens at a more realistic pace than most stories unfold, but that is one of the great things about the series and one of the main things the creators fucked up in the latter half, so maybe you should give it a shot.
I saw about 20 hours of very watchable TV. I did enjoy it. But in terms of progress towards something it just felt, empty. Mysteries that were set up had not yet paid off, and I felt no closer to any answer.
I’ve been burned before with Lost and Heroes. I decided to wait until it had concluded before picking it up again.
Fair enough lol
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Script was garbage but that did not happen.
I’ve never watched GOT and it sounds like I shouldn’t bother
Watch it all, it’s still a fantastic watch in my humble opinion.
Back when it first aired it was amazing, people went wild for it, and with reason: it’s really that good. For the first 5 seasons. Season 6&7 become mixed bags because the writers tan out of original source materials and they sucked at writing themselves, and at season 8 theyr recieved a mouthwatering contract for star wars and just wanted to get rid of GoT, even though HBO wanted multiple seasons more.
So, they just write and produces a 6 episode piece of shit that was scandalously bad. Production was bad, writing was just amazingly bad.
Watch the first seven seasons, they’re worth it!
at season 8 theyr recieved a mouthwatering contract for star wars and just wanted to get rid of GoT,
If they worked on a star wars movie I’m not convinced season 8 suffered from them “rushing it” or putting anything less than every last drop of their souls into the writing.
The rest of the comment is dead on.
It’s absolutely worth watching - still the best TV I ever watched. The problem is that the book Author is an absolutely amazing writer, and the show runners were not good writers, so when the show surpassed the books, it was obvious (this is essentially the last two seasons). The show runners also rushed the ending because they were told Disney had a Star wars trilogy waiting for them. GoT easily could have been another 3 seasons to have a proper ending
You could watch it if you stop before the end, maybe through season 6, definitely before 8.
I still recommend the books though, which are still good despite the fact that we will never see the end written by the original author.
The last book was pretty bad, didn’t include any of the main characters. Such a shame, it started so well.
So you mean A Dance With Dragons? I’d recommend doing the last two books mixed together so you get A Feast For Crows at the same time. Here is a link to one reading order by chapter: https://boiledleather.tumblr.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a
That’s interesting .
I had heard that it was twice as long, then they discovered some paradox or plot hole, so he yanked out half the book for re-writes, and published the rest. Still waiting on those re-writes.
I didn’t know it was for plot hole reasons, though I wouldn’t be surprised. I thought it was just because the length was spiraling and he needed to publish the half that was done at the time.
Hey, don’t listen to me, I don’t know anything. That’s just an old memory, and I have no source to support it.
The story makes sense though. The secondary characters don’t have such complex story arcs, but you have to be careful with the mains, especially when they are all over the map, killing and getting killed. Hard to keep track of them all.
I don’t know the situation now, but he had a couple of assistants to help him keep track of everything, but they went off to write the Expanse series, and I don’t think they are with him anymore. Again, too lazy to look for a source, so take it with a grain of salt.
So I think he’s painted into a corner, and doesn’t remember enough about his own world to keep from falling down a plot well.
Eh, the White Walker thing was always dumb anyhow.
Isn’t that a truer reflection of a true to life story? There are no “endings”, life goes on
Well, in that case, if “life goes on”, then new books should keep coming and coming…
IIRC correctly, they were so checked out, working on potential future projects (that were also fucking terrible), that they had most of the work passed off to others?
Honestly though, I blame the author. GOT was great until they ran out of source material. Then you saw how terrible D&D really are at this. MF still hasn’t finished the series. If you can’t finish it, then don’t fucking start it.
Maybe Sanderson can pick up the mantle for this one too.
Not to disagree on the topic but “if you can’t finnish it, don’t start it” is absolutely horrible advice when its about a creative art like writing.
If i am not wrong there is a whole writing style about just starting without knowing yourself where its going to end.
I highly dislike capitalism but i can see that once you have enough material to sell some of it, even if incomplete as a series. Many people would take the opportunity. I don’t know the authors economic background but for a starving artist with high potential that first book sales could be the push required to finish a series.
I blame capitalism, both for putting artists in this position and for the disrespect of big media towards their own content quality. Its always the money must flow, at every cost!
Even without capitalism I prefer having been able to read the existing books without an ending over not being able to read any of them. I can get some enjoyment from the journey even without a destination
Look at it this way.
He was clearly starting to stall in his later books, taking so long to get them out, and instead of starting to wrap up the storyline, he started introducing new elements.
I understand why he hasn’t moved forward, but I’ve lost all interest in ever picking up another book of his. The terrible writing by D&D certainly didn’t help.
My feelings of frustration are valid and my criticism is not unfounded.
I do appreciate your thoughtful response, thank you
That’s a wild take on writing lmao. If you’re not sure the author will finish it, don’t start reading it.
You could at least come up with a response that already hasn’t been said several times.
I think they meant don’t start adapting an unfinished property. A certain transphobic author had issues because the studios really needed her to finish books 5, 6, and 7, so they could hit their schedule of 1 movie per year for 8 years.
Edit: based on replies from the original commenter it seems that your interpretation was correct.
If you have a problem with unfinished works, don’t ingest them until they’re finished. The artist doesn’t owe you anything.
I didn’t say anything remotely close to saying artists owed me anything. Dude bit off more than he can chew.
I have a right to be frustrated when I’m invested in a story and it just stops.
Thats why im still waiting for one piece to finish so i cant pick it up again. Sigh
Be sure to tell your grandkids it has real potential and they should check it out once the series is complete.
Sanderson is a bad pick and has said himself that he can’t do grimdark. Just because he’s prolific doesn’t mean he should be the de facto pick to finish series.
Man the Sanderson hate in this post is real.
I only suggested him because he helped finish the Wheel of Time series.
Don’t hate him, he’s one of my favorite authors. He was approached to finish WoT because he was a good fit. He is not a good fit for ASoIaF
They were fucking it up well before they ran out of source material. See: the confected drama of bran and Jon almost meeting North of the wall
Sanderson would be god awful at completing it and has specifically said he wouldn’t.
I vote Joe Abercrombie, their style is more similar imo and given direction from GRRM’s notes I think he could finish it much better than the show did.
Thank the gods, Sanderson’s writing is trash.
I do not understand why fools rush these things and ruin good things. You’re holding a gold mine and put it through a paper shredder for what?
Because they wanted to work on Star Wars, but this was such a flop Disney pulled the deal
At the time rumor was that the Benioff and Weiss were already working on their next show (3-body problem?), and just wanted to get GoT out of the way.
IIRC they were tied to something Star Wars related, which they subsequently lost. It was the tiniest consolation for GoT fans as it did nothing to un-ruin the show.
We live in the age of everything behind a subscription, the people without talent will always try to take a good thing and burn it for a buck. Trying to understand them is like trying to understand why people voted for a man in a diaper, trice.
Yeah can’t believe Martin is rushing out his books like that!
Then I guess it’s a good thing they didn’t bother to produce more episodes past season 5.
There was a season 5? Don’t remember it
Watched it last year, I quite liked the ending. I did feel some “let’s get this over with” energy, but the ending fit the characters and I can’t say there was anything to break my suspension of disbelief.
I really disliked Daenerys from the start (so I’m biased here) and her “madness” just ramped up rather than came out of nowhere for me.
They did botch Aryas storyline somewhat, which was disappointing, but it didn’t ruin my experience.
Coming into this show all I knew was characters die and everyone hated the ending. When I finished it I didn’t understand what people disliked so much. Yes it was rushed, but I can’t say it was bad. The show had to end and without the source material rather sooner than later. My opinion might’ve been different if I watched the show as it aired (there could’ve been more investment in the story from my side).
I for one loved the ending. I never liked Danny.
It’s not the ending per se, it’s how rushed it all was. Dany going villain was always projected, especially in the last published book. But it’s the rushing of the storyline and the distinct decline in quality dialogue that made it so bad. The storyline could and should have been fleshed out more with maybe even 2 extra seasons. Instead the seasons were shortened and they tried (and failed miserably) to wrap it up quickly.
As for the dialogue, compare the dialogues of Tyrion and Varys from the first 3 seasons to the last 3 seasons and you will wonder if those are the same characters. They were quick witted and sharp in the first seasons, but in the last 3 it’s all “Hur hur, you don’t have a cock” jokes. And that’s just one of the more obvious flaws. So many story threads had no conclusion, the actions stopped making sense, what should be a multi month voyage is reduced to days, etc, etc, etc…
It will be taught in movie colleges as a warning for decades, if not centuries.
what should be a multi month voyage is reduced to days
I think this is what got under my skin the most on the initial watch. Gendry just… running… all the way back to the wall, sending a raven for Dany, and her showing up for the rescue… what was that, like, 6 shots? It pulled me right out.
I kept that in mind during rewatch. What I started realizing is that the early seasons were able to cover passage of time by switching locations/storylines. There was a LOT going on in a bunch of places, and for the most part it was handled well. As the end approached, there were less locations/storylines as everything converged on the North and King’s Landing. So not only did the show lose having the books to fall back on, they also lost the ability to mask time skips. And this was not handled well at all. The result was jarring cuts and a rushed pace. I don’t think stretching the end out any further just for the sake of being longer would have been a net positive, let alone adding seasons of what would have amounted to filler. But there had to have been a better way to avoid those self inflicted faceplants.
I came here to say this comment. I am often telling people that the Dany’s ending was by far the most likely outcome of her path. But she went from hero to villain in 2 hours of screen time. It’s awful showrunning and producing.
100% agree. The whole “good guy becoming a conqueror villain” motif isn’t new. The problem is they rushed it so hard. You had characters constantly telling us “she’s not well and must be stopped” and I was like “based on what???”
If they had an extra season to show her slowly descending to the point the bells would set her off it would have been a beautiful tragedy. Instead it felt more like a “I go crazy you all die now!” heel turn.
IMO they did a pretty good job foreshadowing. She was absolutely brutal in Astapor (justifiably), and was on her way in Meereen before being talked down by her advisors. This becomes a recurring theme: she wants to charge in and go scorched earth, Jorah/Varys/Tyrion/etc urge caution. And at the end, none of them were there any longer. Varys and Tyrion were rejected as traitors, Jorah, Missandei, Rhaegal, and Viserion all killed in her presence. It was just Dany, Drogon, grief, and rage at the end.
Going by the general reaction, it was probably a bit too subtle. But it’s pretty low on my list of GoT endgame sins.
Who cares. Get over it.
No way, someone should be doing a documentary on this. The failure was too epic to forget.
Agreed. Imagine having arguably the biggest piece of media going, with endless potential for merchandise, spinoffs etc. and deciding to just rush through the end, ruin any lasting legacy, and cost yourself future work. And for what? The hope of moving onto the next project sooner? The next project that you were then let go from due to the colossal failure of your last project. It’s fascinating in a way.
It’s absolutely amazing how such a massive show with a huge fanbase completely tapped into the story managed to fuck it up so hard that literally everyone stopped talking about it immediately after the finale. It takes garbage writing of epic proportions to make every single one of your viewers wish they’d never seen your show.
I’d seen shows blow their stories before but never one with the amount of money and talent this one had.
The correct take
