I know it’s easy to dunk on Electron… but have any of yall written any desktop apps with native frameworks? I wrote a small GTK4+Vala app once and I discovered desktop frameworks are very different than developing webapps. Customizing the look, feel, interaction of elements, and general mechanics, seems like a toooon of effort. (It kinda seems like you’re not supposed to customize it.) Web development is waaaaaaaay more friendly towards customization. Which as a company, you want your app to look like your company, not some generic OS bundled app.
And then you have to repeat all that effort for crappleOS and Wangblows?.. And then you gotta hope that it’s even possible to do the thing you want in different OSes. Sheesh.
I mean, I’d be happy if everything was native apps, but I also understand why people don’t tend to choose that route.
That’s kind of the point of the frameworks though? Electron apps suck not only because of resource footprint, they don’t look and feel native, if they have any accessibility it’s usually custom and different for every program. Too much customization is bad.
I remember the times before UI toolkits took over. These programs had soul and were beautiful in their own way, but you had to learn how UI elements worked in each of them separately. The same thing happens with web apps now. Tab and the other usual keyboard shortcuts rarely work, controls are all custom.
Because why go for native performance when you can go for minimum effort on all platforms.
Why have a consistent Wayland experience when each application can run it’s own Electron version with varying degrees of enforced Wayland flags, and/or such an outdated Chromium version Wayland is just jank.
Edit:
Was trying to say that most of these CEF/Electron applications all need their own separate Wayland specific (Chromium) flags to have better Wayland support/integration. And the older Electron applications typically use an older Chromium as base, having even worse Wayland support… Was not trying to make this a “Wayland bad!” kind of post.
TL;DR: Electron applications have wildly varying level of Wayland support/integration, don’t have any Wayland issues other than specific CEF/Electron apps!
Wayland isn’t the problem. Chrome just doesn’t behave well with it. I haven’t had any Wayland-related issues with Firefox.
Yeah, maybe it was just badly worded by me…
most (if not all) Wayland issues I currently have are related to Chromium, and especially CEF/Electron applications that are based on older Chromium versions. Weren’t trying to say that this is an inherent Wayland issue, considering most of the applications works as expected.
Ah I see. I understand now! I thought you may have been one of the people that is still saying X11 is superior, even though Wayland is very usable now.
Ive been hitting weird issues in Chrome too, and had to disable GPU composting to fix them. Unfortunately I have to use Chrome at work - we’re not allowed to use other browsers, as only Chrome has the endpoint security functionality they require (provided by Chrome Enterprise Premium). No other browsers have or can provide the same features.
Always that reflex against Wayland - as someone who has switched to Linux not so long ago i have a hard time with the mindset long time Linux users have against Wayland. I understand that it might be annoying if someone is used to his X-Server and that some tools that people are used to for a decade will get left behind. But as a new user I do not have anything negative to say about Wayland. It behaves nicely with my multi-monitor setup and VRR, has no issues with my Nvidia graphics card, and Xwayland covers tools that can’t or won’t migrate. Using Pipewire allows Steam Remote Play. In the year or so since i switched to Linux, the stability has changed from “it’s ok, but annoys me sometimes” to “rock-solid”.
Y’all have to recognize that there is a new generation of Linux Users around, which does not have nostalgic feelings towards X, and for those Wayland is simply the normal way things run. Whining will not change that.
The Wayland debate is the same as the systemd debate of 2015 minus the death threats.
Very much pro-Wayland in my case.
Just saying that certain CEF/Electron apps (especially those running on older Chromium version) are what is causing certain Wayland specific issues, hence my issue is on the application side (Steam, Spotify etc.), not on Wayland’s side… My bad for the badly worded post which made it seem like the classical “Wayland bad!” posts.
I haven’t touched X11/Xorg in years, nor am I planning on reverting back to it anytime.
I think you’re missing the point. What you said is a problem for sure, but that problem isn’t related to what we are talking about here.
Everyone should have to make one native app before being allowed to make fun of electron/webviews.
Lol, this is funny
