This… Except for contactless payment.
I used graphene for a month. It was lovely. Even things like banking apps worked.
I don’t care about absolute privacy, but I do care about controlling my privacy. Grapheme gave me that.
I had only 1 issue.
Contactless payment.
It’s extremely convenient to me, from public transport to groceries. I just bop my phone.
The fact that Google has that locked down surely violates some EU laws. But I’m sure they wave away the laws because of “financial security” or some other bullshit.
As if bank card NFC/contactless doesn’t suffer exactly the same issues.
I looked into some “graphene contactless payment” type systems or workarounds, and I couldn’t find anything that would fill the gap.
I’m always nervous about fintech companies. Maybe it’s time to get over that and give curve pay a spin.
The cashback seems nice, considering a lot of shops I use are on there.
Unfortunately the reviews on Trustpilot and posts on Reddit make it painfully obvious that their customer service is basically nonexistent. Combined with the typical random account-closing most fintechs are known for, this is not a reliable option.
Looking at this comparison, iCard might be an option if you desperately need a way to use NFC payments on your phone. Reviews are good, but it appears to be a prepaid system. Lots of fees to get lost in, too.
But old school might be just fine, too. I just realized my card does fit into my phone case!
But contactless via a phone can have no limit.
Adding a debit card to phone case means the upper limit is £100. Which is actually fine, and is the limit I have normally set for phone contactless. But I can instantly remove that limit via my banking app.
And the phone needs to be unlocked to make a payment.
Do if I lose my phone anyone can charge £100 to the debit card.
I hear so many people praise paying with their phones, and there I am, so happy that I can leave my phone at home when shopping. Each to their own I guess.
My separate debit card and transport card won’t discharge or just stop working as likely as a phone. It also won’t be suddenly affected by bugs, nor will it get slower. Nor do I get Google also tracking every single payment as well.
The only disadvantage is compatibility. So many things, and now even some shops use contactless-only terminals, while I got contactless or magnetic payments blocked. Only chip + PIN.
But anyway, the shop that had to downgrade to contactless only due to increased fees on regular old terminal also started asking people to pay in cash instead, again, due to the fees.
"The fact that Google has that locked down surely violates some EU laws. But I’m sure they wave away the laws because of “financial security” or some other bullshit. "
I don’t know as much as I’d like to about the regulatory side of this, but I know that Google and other big tech have done a masterful job of proactively building themselves into systems such that taking action against them is difficult.
I think that’s part of why the US antitrust case against Microsoft a few decades ago fizzled out into nothing — even though Microsoft was deemed to have been a monopolist, the big question was how do we remedy that in a way that isn’t going to be harmful? The consensus on this amongst people who I respect is that the results of the Microsoft case was woefully insufficient and something that helped to lay the foundations of the big tech dominance that we see today.
I was hesitating due to this as well, until I realized that my payments are something I want google to have data on least of all. So I got a debit card and turns out it is no inconvenience at all.
It’s not necessarily a solution, but my Garmin watch can still hold some of my cards, so I don’t need the NFC payment on my phone to duplicate that functionality. Do you wear or carry any other devices that can stand-in?
What I’m curious is what kind of ball are you shaped like?
A golf ball? With divots all over your skin? A basketball? Just round? A baseball? With stitches all over your skin like later years Chucky? A football? Are you Stewie Griffen? Testicles? Wait, are you saying your whole body is one big testicle? Oh my god, the Iron Shiek wasn’t speaking broken english! He was just talking about you!!! “I hit him right in the ball this big!”
Even the play store is sandboxed. Those stupid games covered in ads, no where near as bad when the app never has a network connection or access to any files outside its directory.
I’m not trying to convince you but I was paying for everything with my phone, it was the most important feature. After installing GrapheneOS, i got control back and piece of mind, and I dont miss tap to pay.
I believe /e/OS supports a broader range of devices, and it’s also pretty great in my experience. The focus is on getting rid of google (replacing all services with MicroG and nextcloud integration) and blocking trackers while providing a smooth user experience, so it’s security features are not as over the top as Graphene. It’s still a huge freaking improvement over stock Android though, and I find it to be a joy to use.
On devices supported by the online installer it can be up an running in like 30 minutes, no technical skills required. :)
Does this work with multiple device accounts? Work requires my phone to have a personal/work account to be able to access applications like teams, and it’s the only thing keeping me from swapping
In the sense of multiple users in Android settings? That works, it can be enabled in settings -> system -> multiple users. I haven’t tested it though, as I don’t have any need for that.
I use Microsoft Authenticator and Microsoft Outlook for work, and both work flawlessly with /e/OS. Thankfully I have not had any reason to test Teams, but I’m pretty sure that would work as well.
Mainly just that one mean it will never be available on any other hardware…
All the others seem like nice to haves rather than requirements to me(the first one is half required , half nice to have “…including full hardware security functionality”), but I guess I might change my mind when I get around to building a Linux phone when I have time to do that when I’m dead… 😅
Building a linux phone: do you mean from scratch, or just installing one of the Linux phone OS’s that already exist?
I’ve been following Ubuntu Touch for several years now and, while they have made a lot of progress, its main hurdles have the same thing in common: mobile hardware is incredibly locked down. For example, Ubuntu Touch uses proprietary Android drivers for many low level functions. Even then, there’s some features that aren’t stable across all devices, like VOLTE.
It sucks, I really want to use Ubuntu Touch (or any of the Linux alternatives) but I can’t make phone calls or text in the US without VOLTE support. There are a few phones that support VOLTE, but the feature is either in beta, the phone is expensive, or the phone is not sold in the US.
Anyways bringing that back to Graphene: In my case, I’m using this as a stopgap until Linux phones take off (assuming they ever do). For now I guess the best thing is to just be skeptic, keep things minimal, and bloat-free.
Laughs in Graphene
Not a day goes by that I don’t regret installing that on my phone.
This… Except for contactless payment.
I used graphene for a month. It was lovely. Even things like banking apps worked.
I don’t care about absolute privacy, but I do care about controlling my privacy. Grapheme gave me that.
I had only 1 issue.
Contactless payment.
It’s extremely convenient to me, from public transport to groceries. I just bop my phone.
The fact that Google has that locked down surely violates some EU laws. But I’m sure they wave away the laws because of “financial security” or some other bullshit.
As if bank card NFC/contactless doesn’t suffer exactly the same issues.
I looked into some “graphene contactless payment” type systems or workarounds, and I couldn’t find anything that would fill the gap.
Try Curve Pay. Just learned about it yesterday. I added my credit card and it just works. Couldn’t be happier.
Looks awesome, but unfortunately seems to only be for the UK and EU. I wish the US market would get something similar.
I’m always nervous about fintech companies. Maybe it’s time to get over that and give curve pay a spin.
The cashback seems nice, considering a lot of shops I use are on there.
Unfortunately the reviews on Trustpilot and posts on Reddit make it painfully obvious that their customer service is basically nonexistent. Combined with the typical random account-closing most fintechs are known for, this is not a reliable option.
Looking at this comparison, iCard might be an option if you desperately need a way to use NFC payments on your phone. Reviews are good, but it appears to be a prepaid system. Lots of fees to get lost in, too.
But old school might be just fine, too. I just realized my card does fit into my phone case!
Do you trust them? The Curve sub is full of people complaining about fraudulent transactions. Kinda makes me afraid of unlocking my card lol.
I haven’t really put much effort into researching before I downloaded the app. What do you mean ‘fraudulent transactions’?
Worst case scenario; I’ll have to request a new credit card. Not too much of a hassle in my mind.
This may seem like a silly solution but maybe pop your debit card inside your phone case. It should bop through it.
Yup, true.
But contactless via a phone can have no limit.
Adding a debit card to phone case means the upper limit is £100. Which is actually fine, and is the limit I have normally set for phone contactless. But I can instantly remove that limit via my banking app.
And the phone needs to be unlocked to make a payment.
Do if I lose my phone anyone can charge £100 to the debit card.
Yeah, all fair points. I do love the convenience of using my phone to pay too in fairness.
I hear so many people praise paying with their phones, and there I am, so happy that I can leave my phone at home when shopping. Each to their own I guess.
Everyone has different preferences.
My separate debit card and transport card won’t discharge or just stop working as likely as a phone. It also won’t be suddenly affected by bugs, nor will it get slower. Nor do I get Google also tracking every single payment as well.
The only disadvantage is compatibility. So many things, and now even some shops use contactless-only terminals, while I got contactless or magnetic payments blocked. Only chip + PIN.
But anyway, the shop that had to downgrade to contactless only due to increased fees on regular old terminal also started asking people to pay in cash instead, again, due to the fees.
I don’t know as much as I’d like to about the regulatory side of this, but I know that Google and other big tech have done a masterful job of proactively building themselves into systems such that taking action against them is difficult.
I think that’s part of why the US antitrust case against Microsoft a few decades ago fizzled out into nothing — even though Microsoft was deemed to have been a monopolist, the big question was how do we remedy that in a way that isn’t going to be harmful? The consensus on this amongst people who I respect is that the results of the Microsoft case was woefully insufficient and something that helped to lay the foundations of the big tech dominance that we see today.
That is literally the only thing keeping me from installing Graphene on my phone.
I was hesitating due to this as well, until I realized that my payments are something I want google to have data on least of all. So I got a debit card and turns out it is no inconvenience at all.
It’s not necessarily a solution, but my Garmin watch can still hold some of my cards, so I don’t need the NFC payment on my phone to duplicate that functionality. Do you wear or carry any other devices that can stand-in?
No.
I tried a smart watch for a week or so, and hated wearing it.
Hadn’t worn a watch in 20 years, and it felt very strange
Fair enough. I was in that camp for a decade or more myself. I hope you find a solution!
I use a smart watch for contact less payments ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i just use a debit card lol
So you regret it every day? GOS is amazing in my opinion. What’s your gripe with it?
Double negatives are hard. I love Graphene.
I mean, the way I read it is “not a day goes by on which I am not regretting doing this”. So, every day you are regretting it 🤔
For real, I was puzzled. Like damn, this dude absolutely hates Graphene! I wonder why…
deleted by creator
Why? Curious.
What I’m curious is what kind of ball are you shaped like?
A golf ball? With divots all over your skin? A basketball? Just round? A baseball? With stitches all over your skin like later years Chucky? A football? Are you Stewie Griffen? Testicles? Wait, are you saying your whole body is one big testicle? Oh my god, the Iron Shiek wasn’t speaking broken english! He was just talking about you!!! “I hit him right in the ball this big!”
Lol! ❤️ run on rants.
And I used to be quite overweight with a large gut. My kids used to say I was 19 months pregnant. The weight is gone but I kept the name.
I installed GrapheneOS for the security and lack of Google. I didn’t know it was a very nice stock Android without any crap. I love it.
Main things holding me back are the apps I already paid for on Google Play, and tap to pay.
Tap to pay is not there. But you can install the Play Store and install all your paid applications, that’s what I did.
You can sandbox play store apps right?
Even the play store is sandboxed. Those stupid games covered in ads, no where near as bad when the app never has a network connection or access to any files outside its directory.
Everything is sandboxed but I don’t have all the details. You don’t actively turn any sandbox on or off, it’s always there IIRC.
I guess I’ll need to get one of those little holsters that can hold a credit card.
I’m not trying to convince you but I was paying for everything with my phone, it was the most important feature. After installing GrapheneOS, i got control back and piece of mind, and I dont miss tap to pay.
I believe /e/OS supports a broader range of devices, and it’s also pretty great in my experience. The focus is on getting rid of google (replacing all services with MicroG and nextcloud integration) and blocking trackers while providing a smooth user experience, so it’s security features are not as over the top as Graphene. It’s still a huge freaking improvement over stock Android though, and I find it to be a joy to use.
On devices supported by the online installer it can be up an running in like 30 minutes, no technical skills required. :)
Thanks for highlighting this. I might try it out on my OP7Pro.
Does this work with multiple device accounts? Work requires my phone to have a personal/work account to be able to access applications like teams, and it’s the only thing keeping me from swapping
In the sense of multiple users in Android settings? That works, it can be enabled in settings -> system -> multiple users. I haven’t tested it though, as I don’t have any need for that.
I use Microsoft Authenticator and Microsoft Outlook for work, and both work flawlessly with /e/OS. Thankfully I have not had any reason to test Teams, but I’m pretty sure that would work as well.
I can confirm that this works with LineageOS using something like Insular, and I have tested it.
so jealous, wish it or lineage os worked on any of my phones
Does this induce a current?
Google: Laughs in “Everybody else you communicate with who has that shit enabled”
Sadly true in any situation that requires talking to anyone else.
Is it just me or does it seem slightly sus that GrapheneOS is only available for Google hardware…
There are many technical reasons why: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices
Every Android phone (besides Pixel) fails to meet the high technical requirements of the project.
Sounds like they’re intentionally setting the barriers to entry too high for anyone other than Google…
Ok. Which ones, and why?
Edit: I can see the 5 and 7 year support, but what about the rest of the list?
Mainly just that one mean it will never be available on any other hardware…
All the others seem like nice to haves rather than requirements to me(the first one is half required , half nice to have “…including full hardware security functionality”), but I guess I might change my mind when I get around to building a Linux phone when I have time to do that when I’m dead… 😅
Building a linux phone: do you mean from scratch, or just installing one of the Linux phone OS’s that already exist?
I’ve been following Ubuntu Touch for several years now and, while they have made a lot of progress, its main hurdles have the same thing in common: mobile hardware is incredibly locked down. For example, Ubuntu Touch uses proprietary Android drivers for many low level functions. Even then, there’s some features that aren’t stable across all devices, like VOLTE.
It sucks, I really want to use Ubuntu Touch (or any of the Linux alternatives) but I can’t make phone calls or text in the US without VOLTE support. There are a few phones that support VOLTE, but the feature is either in beta, the phone is expensive, or the phone is not sold in the US.
Anyways bringing that back to Graphene: In my case, I’m using this as a stopgap until Linux phones take off (assuming they ever do). For now I guess the best thing is to just be skeptic, keep things minimal, and bloat-free.