Part 2: if you were the parent, would you feel it would be ethical to keep them alive?
Yes, I think I would want to live.
I don’t think we can truly empathize with how strong our will to live is.
Also, I think questions like these tend to cause us to dehumanize folks with disabilities. (Edit: correction, I don’t think it’s the question that dehumanizes folks with disabilities, I think it is the thoughtless answer given by folks that tends to dehumanize)
Folks with disabilities absolutely can contribute to society. The most obvious example is Stephen Hawking. He could only move his eyeballs or something ridiculous like that, although I believe he did start off fully functional and slowly lost control of his muscles over time.
There’s the issue of ‘being a burden’ in family or caretakers, which is more an issue of health care in our society (USA here). It is not the fault of the disabled person that they need health care.
We are all a drain on society. No one lives in a vacuum.
No one is self sustaining, no one lives without the help from society without which we would all most likely die in a few weeks if not sooner.
Folks with disabilities are humans. It’s society’s job to take care of all humans. Period.
“If I died and went to heaven, I would sell my soul to the devil just for the chance to come back and stub my toe….” —— paraphrase from a line in a poem by Tim Seibles.
Part 1: No, that’s worse than death.
Part 2: Not my choice. It would be up to my kid. If they’re in a state where they cannot make a choice, then I would put them out of their misery, because the alternative would be worse for them.
If I knew about it and it’s not like an overnight change I think I will try to thrive. Most of that are manageable with some support. Imagine the brownie points I can have.
Also! I’ll learn how to wheelie.
If I’m the parent I’ll try to give them the best life. If it’s still unbearable for them then I’ll support them whatever they decide. Canada has MAID(medical assisted in dying).
Blind wheelies would certainly be impressive
I have none of that and don’t want to live.
I want you to live. ❤️
I didn’t mean to argue or be rude or ungrateful to your intentions, but is it not greedy and selfish to expect someone to stay alive for your pleasure? Obviously we’re Internet strangers, we probably won’t talk again outside of this thread, but even when family or acquaintances (not sure I have any real friends anymore) tell me that, it feels like they only say that because it’s what society expects them to say. They aren’t there for me when I’m in need or feel helpless, they can’t change the fact that every waking moment I feel miserable and worthless, so to me it just seems like they’re being selfish to say I need to stick around for them. If I was important enough to need to be alive, why don’t any of them ever reach out to me or check in on me or ask to hang out or anything? They only come out of the woodwork when I’m ready to end it all to chime in with paper thin commentary like this.
😕
You have a mental health issue that no one on here can solve.
I say this because I spent years in the same place, on the edge of ending my own life. I had a pact with myself that I wouldn’t let myself live another 10 years. That was 12 years ago.
You are depressed. But you can make progress. All of the things that everyone says are the ways out of depression do work - they just don’t work overnight, and they don’t all work all the time - sometimes it’s medication, sometimes it’s quitting booze, sometimes it’s sleeping 8 hours. Sometimes it’s none for a little while and things are bad. It’s a process. But eventually you make progress.
Wishing the best for you.
Medication, learning to look after myself better, and finding things in life I do enjoy, have really helped my depression. It’s still a struggle and I’m still improving.
I’ve had a really hard week, it’s Sunday today and I laid on the couch reading a novel for about 8 hours (with breaks). I feel a lot better today than I did yesterday.
your comment is a breath of fresh air.
Do you want to hang out with them?
It’s a two-way street. They can’t be the only ones to make contact. You have to make an effort as well. Maybe you have.
If they tell you they care, I believe that’s the truth. But it’s exhausting being the only one to maintain a relationship. Trust me as someone who loves my friends and family but I am suffering the consequences of not having the energy to make almost any contact, and thus losing a lot of my relationships. I’d love to be closer with my brothers but it’s too much in life right now and forever to make the calls. They used to call me, now they don’t, because I never reciprocated. Even though we love to hang out when visiting each other’s cities.
I don’t know your situation at all, but I’m telling you that I want you to live, not for my sake or my selfish reasons (I obviously don’t know you and have zero attachments), but because I want you to feel important, because living should make you feel that way. I want this for you simply because I have empathy and sympathy. That’s it. Same as your circle of friends and family probably as well.
I want you to live, love, and find happiness. 🙂
As someone with half that list of health issues. I struggle everyday. Most people even family do not care they can leave, go eat, live life. I cannot. Nobody cares until it’s them. They will never understand, have the compassion, empathy, respect to even try to help you, not even to clean up after themselves for things that make you sick, (gluten issues and they leaves pizza crumbs and greasy pans all over counters and stove). Plenty of sorries to help their emotions feel better though. Nothing for you though. Not money to help with medical things. Not care to keep themselves in order. People do the bare minimum and the world is fine with it.
I don’t want to live like that, not as a parent, myself, or my family members. Shits hard. I don’t want to die or be dead so I’m not looking to OFF myself but fuck its hard to get through each day. It takes a solid, hard headed, self disciplined, never give up attitude to live like this. Yet you still fail to thrive and have any chance of health.
I am sorry you don’t have the support you deserve, even from family. That must make a difficult life even more so.
My wife has cerebral palsy and in the last 5 years has developed chronic back pain that has taken away what little mobility and dignity she had.
It has been upsetting to watch her decline. Doctors seemingly unable to alleviate her symptoms, but we keep trying.
I am head over heals in love with her. The disability doesn’t change that. I am there for her every need, day or night. We appreciate each other and spend all our time together. I wish you could find someone to do the same for you.
A deep bow in admiration combined with a sad hug. Thank you for staying and not be the “typical dude” who just vanishes the moment it becomes less easy. I’m sure she’s also full of love for you. I wish you all the strength to remain the strong one to make her life suck as little as possible.
Also seconding your point. This dude’s family is just toxic shit.
Nope. Even if a cure was on a cure was on the horizon. Its tough when its someone else though. My father had alzheimers. Initially it was like well he like to walk around and eat and sing. There is some quality of life. Eventually though he could not swallow whole food and was in a wheelchair when not in bed and his hands had curled up. It was clear that if it were I in that condition I would like a nice does of barbituates.
Get your living will done, my dude. If you don’t make your wishes known, you’ll traumatize some EMS who has to perform a very crunchy CPR on you. My dad, a former EMS, has a “no aerobics” DNR set up so he won’t be someone else’s trauma.
“no aerobics” DNR
Does this mean DNR only if requiring artificial respiration? I couldn’t see “no aerobics” online.
Thats all well and good but there is no death with dignity here and I have seen the horribleness of hospice.
I barely want to live as is
Not even if you paid me
If there is a chance for a cure maybe, but also even if it if there is am I just dooming my parents and myself into homelessness for my cure ? If the answer is yes I’ll skip this chapter in cosmic existence not too keen on the current model we are all apart of so maybe my bias has already positioned any position I might have taken with DoomerTM view. As a parent, I would want to do anything to keep my child alive and give them a chance of life that I never had or at least the chance of getting being happy, but I wouldn’t want them to suffer with no port of safety from the storm that is life along with any pain that wouldn’t be alleviated or healed/cured… I couldn’t do that to just have a genetic version of myself…… man the longer I think about maybe I shouldn’t have replied maybe I wasn’t the target audience ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No…
On the Sub question about the parents I don’t have an easy answer. That would be a conversation I would have with My child.
I can’t think of a clearer or more concise answer.
No. My main reason for wanting to live as is is so I can improve the world for others, and in that situation I’d just be a drain on society, and also suffering.
If I was a parent I would not make decisions for my child, assuming they are capable of making decisions, it’s not my choice whether they should live or die. By the same token, I wouldn’t bring then into the world in the first place, however, as they cannot provide consent to live.
My main reason for wanting to live as is is so I can improve the world for others
What a damn noble, yet horribly rare, ethics to live by is that? Kudos…
It’s so damn difficult to questimate what that’d be, but I’d like to wish I would have the will power to live the fullest life I could
