The best examples that come to mind are when ordering food. As examples:
• You speak English and Spanish and are ordering a burrito
• You speak Thai and English and are ordering Tom Yum
I imagine it could depend on numerous things:
• You primary language or ethnicity
• What sort of restaurant
• Who you’re dining with
• Who you’re ordering from
• and probably a lot more…
Cater to the audience. Being understood is more useful than being right.
Pronounce it properly then give the equivalent in whatever language you’re talking in. That’s what I do.
That’s a great way to put it, though sometimes I run into situations where I know some of my audience will understand language A and not B and some will understand B but not A.
I always end up just freezing; it’s like my brain is rebooting or something.
There’s pretty much always time to explain yourself if someone doesn’t understand. You could say it the first way that comes to mind, then pause and say it the second way. It doesn’t have to be perfect, you just have to communicate. Sometimes you have to use your hands and feet, and that’s OK too.
I feel like I owe you money for this kinda therapy…
I attempt to change to the pronunciation of the original language of that word
Whichever way I learned it first.
Generally, if I know there is a common loan word, then I say it in the language I am speaking (burrito is close enough for example), otherwise I try to say it in the native language and native intonation (quesadilla = kesadi-ya). I generally try to see what will be the most understanding.
With people’s names I will try to default to their native version, but once I know them for a while I’ll get if they seem to prefer the English or imported version. I’ll start with O-ka-mu-ra for example with proper Japanese intonation and cadence, but if they like the bouncy American style of pronunciation Oke-a-moo-rah better then I’ll use that. A 2nd generation Japanese-American for instance might be more familiar with the latter. Conversely, a name like George/Jorge, I’ll say George in other languages but if they like Joーji (Japanese) or Hor-hey (Spanish) better I’ll move to that regardless of what language I’m speaking.
Depends on the language being used and who I’m talking to
I’m French and get mocked for saying sweatshirt instead of sweetshirt (as French do)… It’s a real conundrum.
France is the absolute worst for this. I once spent ten minutes in a bar trying to figure out who ‘Kenny West’ was… I kept asking my friends if they’re sure that’s how the name is pronounced.
It was Kanye. He even says his name in most of his own songs…
I’m a native English speaker living in Germany and if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent. It makes Germans cringe, but if I switch back and forth, I completely lose my accent. That means that I pronounce, for example, Microsoft while speaking German with a long i, a trilled r, and a voiced s.
The German r isn’t trilled, though. Not every “hard” r is “trilled”, that’s a unique feature of a specific set of languages and regional accents, like Spanish.
Also, as a German I’d frown so hard at someone who pronounces “Microsoft” like that, even most Germans don’t speak like that. Can’t you at least pronounce it as if it was written “Maikroßoft” (with a German r and a sharp s), i.e. like most Germans do? “ai” and sharp s are common sounds in German.
I feel you on having difficulties switching between accents quickly, though. I definitely run into this issue when I try pronouncing English words with English r, w or all those diphtongs that English tends to use instead of the single vowel that’s written down.
German has three widespread r variants, including a trilled one (which is most common around me, but not standard Hochdeutsch), and even more less widespread ones. If you go to Herborn, you can even find native German speakers with a rhotic r that sounds just like the one I grew up with in the US.
I wouldn’t call these variants “widespread”, but fair enough.
Do the Germans around you actually pronounce “Microsoft” like that, with German i and voiced s?
The old ones do, but young people think I’m cringe. I personally find it way more cringe if I pronounce the rest of the sentence with a strong American accent though, so my friends can call me cringe and I’m okay with it. Regarding my other example, „der Song,“ I tend to just say „das lied” instead, because I recognize that pronouncing it like „der (Minne)sang“ with an o is wrong and hard to understand.
I personally find it way more cringe if I pronounce the rest of the sentence with a strong American accent though, so my friends can call me cringe and I’m okay with it
But why do you get an American accent when you pronounce “Microsoft” like a German who speaks English with a German accent? “ai” and sharp s are common sounds in German.
My brain just gets confused, and it automatically switches. I’d like to be able to go back and forth easily, but I can’t. It might come in time, but for now I just stick with the pronunciation that leads from the spelling and standard German pronunciation rules (somewhat tailored to the local dialect)
if I’m speaking German, every word is coming out with a German accent.
Speaking German with a German accent? What?
German has many English loanwords, which most Germans pronounce with an English speaking accent. I pronounce them with a German accent, as in the example given. I also pronounce “Song” in German with voiced s and a k at the end, for another example.
There are proper ways to pronounce English loan words in German. See Handy, aka Hendi auf Deutsch.
Exactly. I don’t pronounce „handy” in German the same as I do in English. „Cool” is almost the same, but with a slightly different L, but those are both actually German words. I was thinking more about recent acquisitions that might not be actually eingedeutscht yet or proper nouns though. I basically pronounce English words like a German who has minimal English knowledge.
I’m German and I have no idea how to pronounce “Microsoft” with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German “mikro” at the beginning? But that’s not an accent, that’s translating half a word. And Song with a “k” at the end? That’s just not a word. Are you saying Zonk?
It’s called Auslautverhärtung, and it makes Germans cringe when I do it on a word like song, but if I want to use it correctly on a word like Verhärtung, I’ve got to use it on the word song.
I’m German and I have no idea how to pronounce “Microsoft” with a German accent. I guess you could pronounce it like the German “mikro” at the beginning? But that’s not an accent, that’s translating half a word.
Again, long i, trilled r, and voiced s. You can call it translation if you want.
You use the one of the language you’re currently speaking, of course.
Honestly it’s mostly unconscious for me, the brain just does it’s thing sometimes.
I’m so jealous.
Part of the reason I asked is because I want to get to this point so badly but my brain just freezes whenever I’m unsure of everyone in the audience’s understanding of both languages
😣🫣If that’s what you’re facing, maybe try thinking of it like you’re trying to get to know them a little. If you start talking about say, your recent effort to make sambal oelek for use in say noodles, asking if they’re familiar with the name, talk about how it has some origin in French cooking from the colonial period, add some info about how you like to use it etc.
Like if I’m ordering food, I’ll always go for the full pronunciation, then maybe follow up with the server or whoever asking if it’s the dish with this or that main focus.
I also love having fun with themed dinner parties with friends and the such, give full presentation on the pronunciation, it’s history in different areas that make it slightly different, give everyone a copy of the recipe (minus a few key but subtle ingredients lol) in both the original language and English.
All in all I say just try to make it a chance to be enjoyed one way or another and it doesn’t take long to get your confidence flowing lol. I totally empathize, I used to be absolutely mortified about the same thing, still do sometimes, just less so these days.
I use the language that I think my interlocutor would prefer. If I don’t know, then I default to the language of the social context, unless I specifically want to practise a language at that moment. If I want to practise, then I ask first.
Of the language I am using. Trying to fit in correct pronunciation sounds weird.
Fun fact, just this week I realized that “hemendex” is literally “ham and eggs” together when I’ve seen it written on a menu as “hamandeggs”. I am fucking dumb.
But hey, there’s also jomaha, jomaso (You’re my heart, You’re my soul): https://youtu.be/snm_GTD9-Q8?t=25
The slavic lossy compression of English.
By how well known the word is by the people I speak to. English is usually not an issue. Germans speak english quite well. Languages’ Common phrases like yes, no, thank you are also often known. So I pronounce these as a native speaker would.
When ordering food? It’s a fine line when I don’t speak the language myself. I.E. ordering spanish couisine but not knowing spanish. I try not to butcher the pronunciation, but trying to lean into it would feel pretentious and awkward to me.
It depends.
Let’s say I’m trying to ask an acquaintance their phone number so I can add them on WhatsApp or Signal. Honestly it’s kind of ridiculous to use the proper pronunciation of Whatsapp im Brazil, so I use the popular way (it’s something like “oah-tchi-zap”).
Unless I’m actually speaking with someone in their mother language I just default to the Brazilian version of the name. Otherwise I will try and match their pronunciation - it’s nice to train and also I think it’s polite.
I’ll pronounce Spanish words in an American accent, but using Spanish pronunciation. For example, if I say “I would love a quesadilla, but I don’t have any queso or tortillas.” I’ll pronounce the “que” as “kay” instead of “kway” and the “illa” as “eeya” instead of “ila”, but in an American accent. The exception being if I’m pronouncing a place name, then I’ll pronounce it with English pronunciation. Like “Los Angeles”, I pronounce as “loss anjiless”.
Depends on how good I actually am at pronouncing the original version, how different the original version is from the current language and if I assume that my conversation partner is going to understand it. Also, I tend to have trouble with switching accents quickly. On the other hand, figuring out how to correctly butcher a pronounciation isn’t that easy if you’re not a native speaker of the butchering language.
I’m a native German living in Germany, English is generally fine, i.e. most Germans know English well enough that they aren’t going to be confused by a correct English pronounciation and my pronounciation isn’t that bad by German standards. Other languages can get dicey, though. TBH I tend to avoid pronouncing words that are neither German nor English and are hard to understand if you don’t know much about the language - e.g. “burrito” isn’t so different that Germans wouldn’t understand the Spanish pronounciation, but many French words are not very obvious if you don’t know French well, plus my pronounciation could be bad enough that it would even throw off native French speakers.
If I was in an anglophone country ordering German food, I’d probably pick the German pronounciation, because I’m not that good at guessing how anglophones in a specific area pronounce German words, and who knows how that would even come out if I try that with my German-accented English. But I’d expect that most of the servers don’t know any German and have trouble understanding me. I’d probably just say the numbers if it’s a numbered menu.
