When I (23M) was growing up, my parents hated whenever I locked my door for privacy. Like most adolescent boys, I had a libido and things that I liked to look at when I was taking care of that.
When I was 15, my dad would lean against my door every day to listen in. One day, he heard I was in the middle of it, and as quickly as possible, he picked the lock of my door and caught a glimpse of me watching some pretty crude and wacky rule 34 that was sorta ambiguously gendered. He immediately closed the door and retreated to his room. When I cleaned up and asked why he “knocked,” he said “nothing” with an unsettling smile.
7 years later, when I came out as passionately heterosexual because I finally figured out what my type was, he became very angry and told me I was REALLY a [f-slur], and he could prove it by revealing what he caught me watching all those years ago. I actually thought he would be glad to know how I turned out, but it seems that he, a conservative, was angry that I wasn’t queer.
Recently, my older brother got into my journal with all of my private thoughts. The first thing he read was the dozens of pages of sexual fantasies I wrote down for my sole enjoyment and reference. When I confronted him, he justified his intrusion into my most intimate thoughts with “God told me to do it.” He nitpicked my fantasies and told me that my openness to choosing my gender and sexual expression instead of forcing myself into the cishet box would inexplicably turn me into a pedophile. It seems that 5,000+ unfiltered words exhaustively proving my heterosexual attraction for strong mature women and wholesome consensual lovemaking style were not satisfactory. Not that any of it was ever his business.
I’m curious if others have have experienced this dynamic of family members violating someone to “test” their sexuality and look for evidence of deviance, or if this is a complete “WTF” situation that isn’t even a thing among most conservative households.
That sounds typical for conservative Christian households, but is deeply unhealthy. It’s a huge violation of both trust and privacy, and also extremely, overtly bigoted. So, common? Yes. Normal? No. Healthy? Absolutely not.
(It’s probably not a majority of conservative Christian households that do this, but it’s not seen as bad in that community, and is therefore relatively common compared to the overall population. It’s also not unique to Christians. Many fundamentalist religions exhibit this sort of strict, spying-enforced behavioral control.)
Wicked people do wicked things. Good people do good things. But for a good person to do wicked things, that takes religion. (Paraphrased from Steven Weinberg.)
No, this is not normal. Or at least my upbringing was nothing like this. I grew up catholic (until 12) and my extended family is fairly conservative. While I did fall into the cishet paradigm, no one was spying on me and looking for evidence I wasn’t.
Is there anything you didnt share that would explain further why they did what they did? Can you think of any reason they would suspect you?
yea sorry about your hell
Homosexuality can be, and usually is, the gateway into paedophilia. Some homosexuals don’t do this (as they know it’s wrong), but it happens on average from what I researched into this. Why your father believed you were homosexual instead of being heterosexual is beyond me, though I think he wanted you to be a paedo so he could have you railroaded… even if you never wanted to speak with minors in the first place.
And your brother saying that “God told me to do it”… that’s shifting blame away from the real reason: I think he could have told your father about it, keeping his confirmation bias right there. This sort of excuse is something Catholics would do… and devout ones at that I think.
Were you Catholic growing up, by chance?
Then why are there more straight religious leaders convicted of child molestation than gay people? It sounds like your research lacked any actual data.
Even in conservative households, that’s weird. If your dad had blown up right there about the sinful things happining in the room, I’d get it more. What he actually did was inexplicable. And the older brother thing is just awful.
Since it was two incidents total, I won’t go straight for hell, though. Like maybe it was but I’d need more information.
Absolutely. This is not just some bible-thumping “you will burn for your sins if you don’t repent” stuff, otherwise the logical reaction would have been to have a serious conversation on the spot. I would have kind of understood that reaction, from a certain frame of reference, although I of course think it is wrong. But this is someone collecting blackmail material in his own imaginary world where things are what the voices tell them they are.
Run, don’t walk. Seriously.
Or maybe that was his plan, but he chickened out once it got too real? You’d expect it would still change things if he was at all homophobic, though. As it is, he acted like it didn’t happen until he thought he was being lied to and decided to pull it back out.
That is what I mean. Imagine being an otherwise decent person who just happens to strongly believe in the whole conservative-christian system of values. Wouldn’t you want to act on your son being potentially gay?
Or even if you convince yourself that it is better to sweep it under the rug for the sake of peace or something, wouldn’t that be something you take into the grave? And, secretly feel relieved if your son “came out” as straight to you? After all, your own son apparently managed to get back to the “right path”.
I am not a psychologist, and I believe that it is not appropriate to diagnose people who didn’t ask for a diagnosis. But the father has some serious issues, and for his own safety and sanity, I can only tell OP to run and CYA as best as possible in case the family lashes out.
By just reading the title I can say that you grew up in hell. Now let me read your description to see if it was normal hell or super hell.
Edit: So it looks like you grew up in normal hell. Which doesn’t diminish the impact it has on you. I personally grew up in normal hell but had friends that grew up in super hell.
There’s probably a lot you have yet to process. I still randomly have shit come up two and half decades later and realize how abnormal it was. Also fuck your dad and your brother. Both them are assholes that are probably repressed dipshits. I hope you can get past it and not let it fuck with your life too much.
my dad would lean against my door
Creepy, not normal at all.
he picked the lock of my door
He’s fucked up in the head. No one does this.
he said “nothing” with an unsettling smile
He’s a pervert. You’re not.
he could prove it by revealing
He’s a psycho, no one does this. Ever.
my older brother got into my journal
Another psycho.
“God told me to do it.”
Yep, psycho.
I’m sorry you had to live through this but it’s not a normal behavior. I wish you the best for the future without them though because I know that it can destroy someone.
Yeah no, you grew up in hell and nothing about that is normal.
Family you don’t choose, friends you do choose. you don’t owe your family anything, find good friends that will love you for what and how you are.
It is okay to cut off toxic family
That’s not normal. I’m sorry you had to go through that mate.
“God told me to do it.”
The first time I heard that as a teenager, I made sure nobody ever felt comfortable saying it around me again.
Some mild stripping, knocked over glassware, and “speaking in tongues” later, sorry god made me do it.
One time some dickweasel in middle of night “invited” themself into my home would not leave bcus “God told them to”
Maybe just me not religious let alone Christian , but if God instructing peops to (go into random strangers homes|invade peops privacy) , dœsn’t seem like very trustworthy person to take advise from !
My brother tried your approach, he got an exorcism as Satan was tempting him, lol.
I grew up hardcore conservative, southern baptist, very anti non-straight etc etc.
What you just described would appall my bible thumbing parents.
My folks found me looking at “objectionable” porn too. They didn’t get weird about it. The old man just talked with me about sexuality and privacy and of course God as well.
My upbringing sucked. And I have a lot of issues with my folks. But what you’re describing went beyond even what I went through, and I thought my folks were fully crazy.
Good luck fam. You’ll be alright.
They used their religion to justify callous behavior and invasions of privacy.
My folks found me looking at “objectionable” porn too. They didn’t get weird about it. The old man just talked with me about sexuality and privacy and of course God as well.
See, religious disagreements aside that sounds like a completely healthy approach. I’m guessing that’s better than most parents manage, regardless of beliefs.
Only religion? The State is 1000x worse in this regard, and it doesn’t need religion.
Seems like a strawman argument.
States have used religion and are often driven by it, and incorporate it.
Religion isn’t just worship of an invisible creator, religions exist following men.
Power and the Human Condition are ultimately the cause. Religions, states, all the infrastructure and economy and common ideology… It serves to control the population and ensure power.
A state that co-ops religion or a state that tries to force secularism are still going to do what they’re going to do, it’s the people and their intents.
Religion, government… They’re all tools that can be used depending on the people in charge.
Do we need government? Go ahead and debate.
Do we need religion? I’m going to say no, change my mind.
I agree with your message, which seems to confirm mine. How yours makes mine a strawman?
Anyone who thinks the State is not very often also Religion has not visited North Korea, Iran, Russia, or certain parts of the US South
Yeah, you don’t need the supernatural to fill that particular niche. IIRC people have done questionable things in the name of anarchism as well.
I dont need to read much past the title. Anyone who uses the term “degeneracy” unironically in trying to control the private lives of others is probably a shitbag and they definitely should be told to fuck off.
Your parents sound nuts. Sorry you had love with that, dude. I had some different but not all that different stuff as a kid, and therapy has been a really useful tool for unpacking those experiences and turning them into something a bit more useful. Would highly recommend it if you haven’t tried yet. Shit so cash
What has therapy been like for you? I’ve never done therapy before, and I’m kind of worried they’ll try to criticize and gaslight me into playing nice with people who I’m 90% sure are narcissists or try to get me to ignore the limitations that my health problems give me. (But then again, I can’t help but notice that I was socially conditioned to expect shame, punishment, and destructive guidance if I ask for help.)
You’ve got some excellent replies to this question already. I want to add something a therapist told me about therapy that I’ve found helpful.
Therapy isn’t about fixing everything that’s “wrong”. It’s mostly about identifying coping mechanisms we developed during childhood which no longer work for us as adults. Different techniques are used to help clients start opening up to doing therapeutic work or starting it in earnest. The goal though, regardless of the technique, is for the client to know themselves better and use that knowledge to build better emotional and social tools. To replace the coping mechanisms we’ve outgrown with better ones.
A comparison I’ve made is that therapy is like working with an occupational therapist. What’s “best” is conditional and is often usefully defined by what we find difficult or limiting. The best way to pick up something we’ve dropped varies person to person. The important bit is having healthy ways of picking it up again (with or without direct assistance).
Therapy ought to focus on self-understanding which helps us function in reality. In my experience most modern therapists advocate for this even if they aren’t forward about it.
Any therapist who councils you to capitulate to narcissists or ignore your disability should be reported to the relevant licensing authority for negligence at a minimum.
Very late to answering this it seems, but basically him and I just discuss things about my life while he chimes in with different perspectives and advice (when appropriate). Each session is a bit different tho and sometimes he’ll give me “homework” if he thinks I’m struggling to see certain ideas from certain angles. This sometimes means a worksheet and it sometimes means asking myself a certain question or questions when I notice myself or others behaving in certain ways.
Hated that shit at first, but it’s actually kind of fun to peel back the layers and learn something new through it these days. Usually. Sometimes I forget and he will occassionally get a bit more direct about what he was trying to insinuate me toward, because a good therapist puts in the effort to meet you where you need to be met, while still pushing you to raise yourself up a little higher each day.
The first time I tried therapy was a different story (they were very presumptuous and certain of their correctness on these presumptions, basically. The exact kind of person that I tend to find incredibly annoying and unhelpful) so it was only a couple sessions with them before I decided it was just a really bad match and got tf out of there. Like others have said, the option to disconnect and try again with a different professional is always there, too. Sometimes, it is very necessary to take advantage of that.
That last line in your comment could potentially be a great jumping off point were you to try therapy. Making it clear what you fear about it right along with what you hope it could help with; that’s a great place to kick things off with a level-headed and helpfully-inclined talk therapist. And many of them (tho def not all) are offering exactly that.
Best of luck with whatever comes next for you, stranger!
You are 100% allowed to ask for a different therapist, and tell them honestly what about the first one didn’t work for you.
Think of them as someone you hire, like a construction contractor building a new addition for you. If they do a bad job for your needs, fire them and hire someone else, just like you would if they disregarded your hypothetical missing leg while designing the layout, and gave you lots of stairs. Stairs don’t help you, even if they might be fine or even desired for someone else, just like a therapist who would criticize you or try to gaslight you isn’t helpful to you.
It might take a few tries, but it’s definitely worth it to find the right person if it’s not the first one.
My first ever therapist was super religious, and told me that it was better for me to be bored and vaguely unhappy in my relationship than to be alone (I’m a woman so that’s not the first time I’d heard that drivel…). She also told me I need to at least be spiritual, or I’d never get over my depression (incidentally went away when the relationship did… funny, that…) I was raised without religion, and her comment about my relationship gave me the ick, so I found a different one. And that one was a lot better.
I grew up in a crazy Christian environment, really messed with me for a long time. Go to therapy. You don’t have to stick with the first person you try, and it took me a few to find the right person to just click with. But you’re gonna need to talk this shit out. It’ll be rough, but worth it in the end. A good therapist will listen and ask questions, but they’re not going to make you do anything, least of all make ammends with people who are a bad influence on your life. You got this.
(But then again, I can’t help but notice that I was socially conditioned to expect shame, punishment, and destructive guidance if I ask for help.)
This.
They’re always gentle in my experience, even when they’re trying to get you to question something you’ve assumed. Maybe they will say you should give people more of a chance, once they get to know your situation. But, if you just say no, worst case scenario they won’t have any other ideas. And I can’t imagine they’d tell you to deliberately hang around a narcissist.
Alternately, a lot of the most useful things they told me are things I hadn’t even considered, so maybe you’ll be surprised.
I second the therapy, did wonders having grown up in a very similar environment to you. You definitely need to find the right therapist as the others said. Took me three to find the right one and my wife is on her fifth (but has been with that therapist for a while now).
You need to know what you want out of the therapy and be clear about yourself and willing to do the work. And yes, avoid Christian counselors
Bruh. Try therapy. Air those very concerns if you’re worried about them.
The way I like to think about therapy is you’re paying for access to a second brain, a well-trained one, to help you think through stuff. A good therapist guides you instead of leading you.
Yes, therapists actually seem to love it when you tell them about your feelings about therapy.
Its not uncommon for kids to not really have privacy but they let you have a lock on your door and then picked it??? That is weird.
Sounds pretty fucked up to me. Normal people will just accept you for who you are, whatever that is. Well, unless you’re a serial killer or something, but as long as we’re talking about consensual sexual preferences they should stay well out of your stuff.
