Objectification, hate, rape threats: the politicians debating online abuse mean well, but to truly understand, they need to see what I see
Interesting article and I think it really highlights how toxic some parts of the Internet are. My only issue is the conclusion,
A social media ban for under-16s might prevent young boys seeing endless content that treats women with contempt and hate. Boys at this age are very susceptible to the cool and funny framing of what is, in reality, relentless misogyny. A ban might not fix the problem, but it would help. If society can’t stop it, it can show it disapproves.
Emphasis mine. Having grown up in a different era I can confirm that boys of a wide variety of ages, including much older “boys”, can also be scumbags. Even if we had the perfect technology to ban under-16s from social media, once they hit 16 they’d still be exposed to it, still become terrible people, and the author of this article, although a but older, would still see it. I don’t know if that really is a better world, just a slightly delayed one.
I don’t know the solution, but I remember reading once that some online game would put all the reported and abusive players into a special category where they would be forced to play only with each other. Maybe we can do that in this case.
I kind of feel like social media already does put toxic people together and that has lead them to compete on how toxic they can be. I don’t think forcing gross people into communities with a bunch of people who think the same way helps at all. Being seperated from that and seeing more perspectives seems better.
You’re right that putting people in bubbles is probably one way some of these things get worse. If all you see is toxic, toxic is the norm, now you’re always toxic.
Maybe they can tricked.
Although really what we’re talking about is the algorithm that currently exists being focused on highlighting terrible people doing terrible things. Can we turn that same algorithm around and use it for good?
Personally I think we should get rid of the algorithms all together and go back to timeline with only people you follow, but I also just looked outside and there are no flying pigs.
I am not sure if the algorithm is particularly evil or just uncaring and optimizing for engagement. An algorithm that specifically tried to keep you out of bubbles would be interesting, but there is the question if people would enjoy using it enough for it to do any good or for companies to want to use it without being forced to.
I try to do my best to stay away from algorithms lately. I think being more intentional about it helps me, but perhaps that doesn’t work for some people. I think we need to figure something out though because the effects are obviously pretty bad.
I have a small tight group of guys and gals I occasionally play online games with and I seldom play games where I’m matched up with strangers. It’s not worth it.
As soon as they hear you are a chick… Most usually start with the low hanging fruit “You fat and ugly”
Although one time some guy kept saying I was probably old. Like 40. With 2 kids. I thought that was slightly more creative. But still basic.
I am 40 actually. But I don’t have kids and told him No crotch goblins for me. They might end up like him.
Then told him I could tell he was nervous cause his voice was shakey. Asked him if this was his first time talking to a female.
Then I blocked him and left the game so he couldnt do any come back.
Read a bit into this. That’s not how teens write.
What makes you say this?
There’s a lot of astroturfing online in favor of online censorship and inacting online verifications.
the politicians debating online abuse mean well
Hard disagree.
the politicians debating online abuse mean well
Let me stop you there
The politicians debating online abuse claim to mean well.
I’d give her a pass for being 15
That’s fair. She’ll get it.
That sounds awful why would you keep using a platform like that?
Presumably because all of her friends do, and if she quits using it, then she’ll be left out of her friends’ group chats on IG and be out of the loop on jokes and memes between her friends. Might seem unimportant to an adult, but devastating for a teenager.
Your comment is similar to saying “cyberbullying isn’t real, just turn off the PC”. Because getting pushed out of social spaces on the internet leaves kids feeling isolated, and deprives them of access to shared spaces that their friends use to connect with each other.
One might say “They can just connect in person!” Presumably they do, but the internet is an inescapable part of modern life and that is unlikely to change. We should push for a better internet, rather than telling people to simply stop using it if they’re suffering.
How about using just the chat feature or maybe watching her friends stories and posts, instead of doom scrolling reels from strangers? It’s not hard myself. But perhaps it’s harder if you spend your entire day on your phone hopping between various doom scroll brainrot apps.
I used to be bullied hard in elementary for being neurodivergent and “living under a rock”, and I did not know what was cool or uncool because I didn’t have WiFi at home. To illustrate how ridiculous it was, I got bullied for playing Minecraft to the point that if I left my redstone blueprints on my table they would crumple it, and whenever I ate vegetables they would say, “ew vegetables!!!”.
That sounds terrible. I’m sorry you were treated so badly.
But what’s the cost of them being forced to use these online spaces to connect? Is it greater or less than the cost of not using them at all? Seems to me the balance is going farther and farther to the side of using them being worse than not every day. Body shaming, predators, addiction. We didn’t let kids smoke because it increased their social circle did we?
I don’t think kids should be “forced” to use social media to connect. I was trying to say that the current reality is that kids rely heavily on the internet for social connection, whether we like it or not, and telling kids to “just stop using it” is not going to help those that are struggling.
I think there is a need for better government regulation to make social media a healthier place for both kids and adults, but I’m not yet sure what the best implementation of that should look like. Leaving age verification to private companies has already resulted in damaging data breaches and will continue to do so.
Many people advocate for a social media ban for kids under 16, but the predictably imperfect implementation of that means that some kids can easily bypass facial verification and continue using social media, while others cannot and get excluded. I’m reminded of a quote from this article:
One parent told the Guardian their 15-year-old daughter was “very distressed” because “all her 14 to 15-year-old friends have been age verified as 18 by Snapchat”. Since she had been identified as under 16, they feared “her friends will keep using Snapchat to talk and organise social events and she will be left out”.
We need a way to regulate social media that is both privacy-preserving and also avoids excluding or isolating kids. Maybe some kind of ban for under 16s is the right path, but at a minimum, it needs secure identity verification provided as a service by the government, where your identifying information is never visible to the private companies running the platforms. Because they will fuck it up or abuse it.
Maybe instead of a full ban, we should instead ban advertising targeting youth, and ban algorithmic feeds & suggested content for kids. Make it so teens can only see posts from people they follow, in chronological order, so they eventually run out of new things to see and close the app for the day.
we should instead ban advertising
This is the solution. If companies cannot profit off of their platforms, they will not have them any longer. Literally just ban all advertising. Amend all free-speech laws in all countries to define speech as rights of individual citizens, with corporations explicitly excluded.
This article is to push legislation to kick her off. She is saying “it would be a good thing for under 16s to be banned from social media”. So I think saying why do you feel this way but continue to engage is a fair point.
This is not the average experience so instead of everyone being punished it should be addressed on an individual level. Plenty of people have a healthy relationship with it.
This absolutely is the average experience for young women on social media, and moreover it’s the intended experience. Making girls feel like shit about themselves has gotten powerful men money, sex, and more power for a very very long time.
This article is to push legislation to kick her off
Her and all her friends.
And the article was written by a man.
Nuh-uh! It clearly says “I am a 15-year-old girl” at the top.
NEVER use social media that requires your personal information. Try not to use it at all.
This is a voluntary social disease. It’s not necessary.
My teachers taught me to never ever give my personal data away to strangers for my own safety. Now politicians want to force everyone to do just that. For safety reasons…
You cannot ask a 15 year old for that. They are subject to peer pressure. The only way is to forbid or restrict the access to Social Media to minors. The real question is: who must do it?
Forbid this, forbid that… How about actual fucking parenting instead? As a “zoomer” who used to use antisocial media back when I was 15 but didn’t end up encountering all this objectification crap 'til much later on in life despite being having better computer skills than my parents, let me testify that having hobbies helps. And most of my hobbies developed with considerable help from my parents whom I was able to ask for help/advice.
You cannot compare with someone in their 15 today: average time spent with families is decreasing, and the average time that teenagers spend in touch with their peers (not necessarily in person, but also via IM) is increasing, and therefore also the peer pressure. Also, what about those kids with absent parents? What about those kids with toxic or incompetent parents?
Sure, I agree with anyone who says that kids should be guided and assisted on social media in the right environments, or in a way to find the right spaces to express themselves (with hobbies, sports, group activities, whatever), and I’ll vote for anyone who could do anything on that purpose. But we can also imagine flying cars at this point.
The problem is if everyone uses it then it creates great pressure for others to also use it. I try to avoid it as best I can and prefer to only use platform where I can post under a variety of names without hard links to my real identity.
I feel bad for my indian nieces, they get the worst of all worlds on the internet, think they stick to roblox tho no social media for them
roblox tho no social media for them
Oh boy… in sorry to be the one to point this out. Roblox is a problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/games/2026/feb/20/los-angeles-sues-roblox-la-county
Ik but they do dress to impress type kid sht, not really chatting and not that much videogame type screen time, they more watch youtube/tv, groomings everywhere, at least they arent actively facing racism for their appearence/culture since thats not exposed
This young woman is an exceptional writer. Not many her age can achieve such coherency and well laid structure in longer essays.
I hope she will continue using her skills and keep fighting against this new rise of misogyny.
I heard a comedian once compare the Internet to driving in traffic. A lot of people in the Internet treat each other like crap. I would argue that it’s even promoted on some platforms. I don’t see this changing.
She doesn’t know the half of it. She’s a good kid
Hopefully the next generation of girls and boys growing up just never starts using these shit platforms and they all collapse under their own bullshit in the next few years. Social media is absolutely not necessary and is actively detrimental to good health.
I empathize but what does she want? People are assholes. They’re assholes on social media and they’re assholes everywhere else.
Well, uh… I think she wants people to get better. Like all of us.
Best we can do is find new ways to be assholes.
sigh
unzips
If only we could hold social media’s billionaires accountable or something. Unfortunately, that is impossible, and we can and should never imagine a better world.
(It’s kind of interesting that in a thread about Flock surveillance, people are talking about destroying the nodes. While in a thread about a girl getting abused online, there’s a whole lot more defeatism all around.)
I generally want to make billionaires pay, just as a general rule.
But I don’t see this one specific instance being their fault.
We used to burn women alive if they knew how to do math. Since that time, things have gotten a little bit better. But not much.
People are assholes. All around you are assholes. These assholes go online and continue to be assholes.
There’s a little thing called “free speech”. Govt doesn’t have the power to regulate speech.
E: Never though I’d live in a world where people were falling over themselves to regulate speech. What a sick sad world it is. Can you just for a millisecond imagine what that looks like when the shoe is on the other foot? What do you think fascists would do with that sort of power?
Sorry what? Tech billionaires don’t have to enable the free speech of sexually harassing a child online.
And if your argument is that sexually harassing a child online is “free speech” - and that’s the best argument you have - that’s not a good argument.
My argument is that it’s illegal for the govt to regulate such speech.
What kind of accountability were you referring to? Were you expecting tech billionaires to hold themselves accountable?
The article is from a UK newspaper. What is and isn’t legal for them to regulate is decided by their Parliament and nobody else. No Kings, and all that.
Meanwhile, you should know that the “free speech” lectures are getting pretty old from the country that checks social media history at the border to make sure you didn’t say anything bad about the Dear Leader, which shuts down TV shows it doesn’t like, and generally ensures the media toes the party line.
(See also - lectures on why kids shooting up schools is a necessary price to pay for that well regulated militia that will be along to save you from tyrants, well, real soon now…)
from the country that checks social media history at the border to make sure you didn’t say anything bad about the Dear Leader
That’s also illegal. A rational person would argue to prevent that. An irrational person would suggest that it justifies the regulation of even more speech by an already fascist govt.
Genuinely asking here: do you think the word “illegal” means wrong?
By definition, if a sovereign government decides it’s allowed to do something, it’s not illegal. You could say it’s unethical (though I’m not sure why you would), but you can’t say it’s illegal.
Go yell “fire” in a crowded theater, or “i have a bomb” on an airplane and see just how quickly the government regulates your speech.
Common misconception. That’s not illegal. Nor is it what’s happening.
Platforms could moderate their content. They choose not to.
Moderation? All mainstream social media has done away with it and blatantly allows that stuff to happen.
In no way discounting her experience, but it’s almost like she’s a woman and not a man and she sees things from the woman’s perspective.
It’s a cruel reality, and without having to do a battle of the sexes comparison, everybody gets this bullshit, regardless of gender identity or sex.
Ever been a man and walked into a woman’s online space and see the bullshit that goes on there, the horrible accusations, derogatory dialogue? Ever been falsely accused of sexual impropriety by a woman who’s just looking to hold power?
People are assholes, and when you go on a platform filled with assholes, they’re going to be assholes. Solution, stop going to those places and live in the real world.
15 would make her a girl, not a woman
Ever been a man and walked into a woman’s online space
Yes, and it’s miles better than most men’s online spaces
You should visit /r/twoxchromosomes sometime…
deleted by creator
it’s almost like she’s a woman and not a man and she sees things from the woman’s perspective.
yeah right, how dare she!!! the audacity of females these days, talking about their problems. unbelievable!!!
you’re no better than the shitheads this article is about. fuck you and your “both sides” nonsense.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I assume everyone reading this is informed enough to know that social media is terrible for people of all genders. It’s a custom hell just for you.
I might be wrong but it just seems like you stopped short of saying “not all men”. Did you forget that bit?
I would encourage you to read what is said and try to understand it, versus taking this tired, feeble, accusatory approach.
Solution, stop going to those places and live in the real world.
Agreed with you until this point. You realize the people online are the same people from real life, right?
That’s not how it works, perhaps you might want to close your apps for a few weeks and live in the real world and then you will realize it is nothing like the online spaces.
that’s right! she can simply turn off her phone, and go to school where the boys oh no they’re the same boys aren’t they. oh well, good things school aren’t known for harassment, bullying, and girls not being taken seriously by staff!
