I really don’t understand the average person’s attachment to Israel, like I just don’t get it at all. It’s been obvious since this all started that it is a genocide. There’s no argument to be made against that. So why is picking a side so difficult?
Also, small rant: What is up with the world supporting Ukraine right off the bat but not Palestine?? Is it really as simple as racism? How can you support one but not the other?
Speaking as a 47 year old former lib: The propaganda worked quite well on me until recently, like ten or so years ago.
If you do not look into it and educate yourself on the reality, it is easy to believe the idea that Israel is allowed to “defend itself” because, after the Holocaust, the Jews got together and decided not to take any more shit. The idea is that they occupied an empty desert in Palestine, called it Israel, and got attacked from all sides by the surrounding Arab states and would happily stop shooting if the Arabs stopped attacking them.
The second layer of propaganda says that it’s not that simple, that Israel kills more in response to these attacks than they should, but it’s still a complex situation and we westerners shouldn’t meddle with it because we are ignorant.
The truth finished landing on me around Oct 7, since I’d spent years at that point listening to actual Palestinian people, studying history, etc and knew that Israel was a brutal colonial project of apartheid that was becoming a proper theocracy, but was momentarily fooled by the false reports of brutality by Hamas fighters.
The first hospital bombing ended all sympathy for Israel.
Jesus christ, this is why Chaim Potok’s Chosen used to be mandatory high school reading
You are glossing over the fact that Hamas killed and kidnapped Israelian civilians. As far as reasons for war go “We want to free the hostages” is a pretty convincing one. Such a reason did not exist for Ukraine. Also I believe Ukraine is supported by “the West”, that is, a large part of the world does not care about Ukraine.
Obviously supporting the Israelian genocide in Gaza is stupid. But picking either Israel or Palestine as a side is problematic, especially if you assume Gaza to be controlled by Hamas: Both sides want the complete destruction of their “enemy” (although only one side has the means to actually achieve that). People don’t want to be affiliated with Hamas either.
The side I would like to pick is the one against nationalism, religious zealots and mindless revenge. If both countries could get rid of the war mongers that continue to pour oil on the fire, the people could actually live in peace.
Just to be clear: I support a two state solution with a free Palestine and a free Israel coexisting in peace.
Do you remember when Israel killed three hostages that were walking towards the IOF with their hands up?
No. Most people don’t.
If both countries could get rid of the war mongers that continue to pour oil on the fire, the people could actually live in peace.
Just to be clear: I support a two state solution with a free Palestine and a free Israel coexisting in peace.
Which is somehow a controversial take for many.
Israel literally bombed and killed those hostages. How can anyone still believe this is about freeing hostages.
Because most people do not follow the news very closely. They learn enough to form an opinion, often against their will, and then try their hardest to pay attention to things that don’t torpedo their mental health.
I don’t have a source to point at but I think the first trump admin, followed by covid, broke people. There is no good news and no clear action to take to make the bad news stop. So people tune out. Some news slips through with their FYP or whatever but even then what they get is predigested and filtered so that the emotion hits hard and goes away fast. The most popular form of media is designed not to inform, so people are not informed.
51 comments and 0 posts in 3y3m, and this is what you decide to comment? Hmm…
I’m suspicious that there’s been a long term campaign to whitewash Israel for decades in western media. I don’t think I was really around for most of it, but the way that mostly older people I’ve spoken to regarding this with otherwise perfectly rational options on human rights get really weird about Israel. Most people my age or younger either don’t care or are horrified at what’s going on.
It feels like I’m encountering people that have a lot of unearned good faith in Israel and figure their actions must have justification. Part of it obviously would be WW2, but there’s a big weird unaccounted for goodwill that I could only assume would be a large scale whitewashing campaign.
Ukraine doesn’t have the equivalent Palestine>Hamas>Terrorism>Antisemitism cognitive chain established in most of the west.
So yes, as simple as racism, at base.
Biblical prophecy? They don’t give an actual eff about it otherwise.
There are people I personally recall saying things like “filthy israeli” and calling non white people regardless of their ethnicity “[nationality] terrorist” with usually the wrong nationality being called out, all the stereotypical jewish slurs, etc. yet now loudly “stand with israel” or call standing up for basic human rights antisemitism even though they never gave half a shit in the past and hated them just as much as everyone else different from them. Israel really played the long game.
It’s not a fucking culture war. Either you believe in morality or you don’t ffs.
Calling it a culture war is so depressing. It’s basically making explicit: yes the genocide is happening, but politics is about how you feel about it and what words you use.
Just saw Gorillaz on their first show of The Mountain tour.
Damon Albarn held up a Palestinian flag, draped it over his shoulder, then declared, “It’s time to pick a side.”
It’s just that simple to not be a bitch.
Just saw Gorillaz on their first show of The Mountain tour.
That can’t be. I saw them on The Mountain back in June. But yeah, Damon’ll show them how it’s done.
Even noted cunt Damon Albarn gets it
How is he a noted cunt. I am out of the loop on him.
Huge ego, treats people like shit.
Damon Albarn is a dick but he’s usually been more on the right side of things than not. Demon Days is straight up an anti-climate change album.
Anti climate change as in he doesn’t believe in it or as in we need to stop climate change?
As in we need to stop it. It’s hard to read songs like O Green World and Fire Coming Out of the Monkey’s Head in any other way.
He was “appalled by the conflict”, he wrote, adding that the “suffering and pain caused on both sides” was “a human tragedy”
This little shit literally “both sides” this genocide?!? Wow.
I could see that argument being used in the weeks after the October attacks, but after nearly three years of intensive systematic genocide?
Fuck off with that shit.
You can’t be for and against genocide. Either you are evil or you are not.
No, but you can be against genocide and also against the oct attacks.
Just to recap what we may have forgotten:
- Netanyahu knew the attack was coming.
- IDF forces (that Hamas had planned to attack) were unaccountably withdrawn from the area when it started.
- A lot of the deaths and destruction at the kibbutzes were the result of IDF fire.
- In the Hamas videos, a lot of the attackers seemed confused and put off by finding civilians rather than soldiers as their targets.
Now, not to get all conspiracy-brained, but I have to wonder whom to condemn for the Oct. 7th civilian death toll.
At some point the October attacks stopped being anything but an excuse.
I remember reading about them and thinking; “damn, the response will be BAD”, and as the days turned into weeks turned into months turned into years of constant brutal systematic violence, Israel quickly lost all my sympathy they got from the attacks.
I have held no special love for the Palestinians, nor Israel for that matter, but Israel is doing it’s best to make sure to show everyone just how little sympathy they deserve.
One important party which manages to stay out of the crosshairs is Wasserman talent agancy whom Ed is signed with. Many other prominent mainstream artists who never speak out for Palestine like Kendrick Lamar are signed with them. Now you know why they never speak out.
I don’t think a grown adult can be absolved of responsibility because of that either, though. Everybody who speaks up takes on risk and losses. He’s better positioned than most people on the planet.
But yeah, good to be aware of Wasserman.
You are right, it is not about absolving Ed Sheeran. This is about showing that everyone who has signed with Wasserman talent agency does not speak up for Palestine. Thus everyone with Wasserman talent agency should be questioned. Or "THE-TEAM as it is called now since the rebrand.
Looks like Ed can go fuck himself.
Ed Sheeran has watched multiple murders happening, but refused to report them on the grounds that he “didn’t want to be political”.
When others tried to speak, he stopped them, saying “I just don’t want to be political!”.
Ed Sheeran is not a safe person to be around.
Yeah, hiding behind a job is nonsense. Imagine me saying “sorry man, I don’t talk about big issues because I drive a forklift Monday to Friday”.
I miss driving a forklift
At least you can speak freely now.
As Jupiderbaal pointed out on TikTok, Sheeran wanted the credit for the anti-genocide stance without taking any risk. He has seen it work for others (even Taylor Swift of all people). He was unlucky and the plan backfired this time.
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he so ugly you could press his face in the dough and make gorilla cookies.
