Why is it necessary to go on the attack over a past attempt that didn’t work? That’s how innovation functions. Sometimes you hit the mark and sometimes you don’t, but everyone learns from the process.
Valve did such a good job learning from the original Steam boxes too. The controller was weird, but the best parts lived in in the Steam Deck and the new controller. The incompatibility issues with the original Steam OS showed how critical getting Proton right would be to the Steam ecosystem. Multiple hardware configurations for each SKU made it harder to verify compatibility, so now they have just 1 for each hardware type. A dedicated Steam Link box was kind of a waste, but now Steam Link works great on Android TV, Android phones, and on Steam itself. And then they built Remote Play Together on top of Steam Link, which is amazing.
Many other companies just abandoned their failures, but Valve took the time to analyze the “why” and salvage the good parts to them. No company is perfect, but kudos to them.
Should I get a steam link? Not entirely sure of its purpose but those words look good
Cause if you dont give reality checks, you end up with shit like Theranos when idiots run wild with hype and hope, and fall to their knees with mouths wide open before even knowing WTF is going on or if it works.
Attack?
They get paid to spread FUD, lots of actors would prefer the current approach with Windows to continue, pcgamer included (just disable ublock and watch the advertisements they run, you will get an idea on why they don’t want a successful prebuilt).
Thank god one can see how it will work right now, just try to game in any desktop Linux, it works wonders.
And what Valve will get themselves in again if they do not price this right.
Consoles are essentially time-based luxuries because the hardware and technology can be obsolete within 1 - 2 years at a given. That’s why consoles remodel themselves after awhile to extend their life.
Valve seems to want to give people an alternative to prebuilt machines on the market. But, if they can’t price right where it’ll make someone think “I can build a better PC than that” or “I can find a better prebuilt than that” then the Steam Machine was a waste of everyone’s time and labor.
Should just stick to the Frame and Deck.
Yes, it is worth it to remember.
They naively expected publishers and developers to give a shit.
But after that failure they worked hard for years and contributed and donated to open source projects.
That allowed Linux to become a true competitor in gaming space with zero vendor lock-in.Whatever their reasons were, the results are objectively positive for nearly everyone.
Pretty spot on, it was so worth it to remember, that Valve actually seemed to remember.
Their first go at it was “make a viable platform and the developers/publishers will make the effort to come over, and hardware partners will step up with offerings because of Valve’s brand strength and fear of the Microsoft Store screwing everything up”. That didn’t work, and Microsoft Store also didn’t pan out as far as Valve and others feared, but they have been kind of screwing up the platform particularly for games as they chase other things that would be subscription revenue instead of transactional revenue.
Valve learned they needed to work harder to bring the platform to the Windows games, so heavy investment in Proton. They learned that they had to take the hardware platform in their own hands because the OEMs aren’t committed until they see proof it can work for them. They learned that the best way to package their improved efforts was with a “hook” with mass-market appeal, enter the Steam Deck, recognizing the popularity of the Switch form factor and bringing it to the PC market at a time no one else was bothering.
So now they have a non-Android, non-Windows ecosystem that covers handheld, console/desk, and VR with a compelling library of thousands and thousands of games…
Indeed. I would say the Gabecube is essentially just another PC and a little overhyped already. It‘s SteamOS that deserves a lot of praise. Especially with the upcoming desktop version.
I won’t be getting one (because I don’t need one right now) but I’m hyped for 2 reasons.
First is getting a company to come out with an official Linux gaming OS. Not because I want some kind of a corporate OS-s but because bigger game developers have a reason to target Linux as they will see there’s not only a market but a supported market.
And the second is standardized hardware for a Linux platform. It will make game development easier because you can target specific hardware and (together with the previous point) specific OS to make games for Linux. I can’t find the link anymore but a developer once said that the majority of their bug reports came from Linux while Linux was also the smallest platform they supported and most of the probably comes from the fact that you can have so many combinations of hardware and software that offering Linux support costs more than offering Windows support. If that can be reduced to specific hardware and specific OS that would give more of an incentive for developers to try out supporting Linux (even if it’s only SteamOS on a Steam Machine).
I don’t care what Steam Machines and SteamOS can do when they release, I care what they can do 5-10 years down the line. It’s all about getting the ball rolling and once it’s rolling it’ll get to the destination, making gaming on Linux as good as it is on Windows, on its own. I know, I know, gaming on Linux is already pretty good. But gaming on Linux is still dependent on Windows and if MS wants they can screw proton over (for example making UWP mandatory) so getting native games on Linux should still be a goal. And there’s also the lack of official support from other companies in the gaming space. The most obvious is most popular online games not working on Linux due to anti-cheat but there’s also the fact that some more niche peripherals are hard to use due to no official drivers. It took some tinkering to get my Thrustmaster steering wheel to run, which instantly is a no-go for the average gamer. We’re like 90% of the way there to make Linux a great platform for gaming but that last 10% is going to require collective effort to achieve and that’s really difficult to achieve.
official Linux gaming OS.
I wish they would fully commit to this instead of just giving people the option to install any OS on it.
People are going to install Windows if they can’t or won’t figure their way around Proton/Steam OS.
The secret trick is that they can do both.
The actual software target is their Steam Linux Runtime container. So all you need to install is the container environment, and if your 3rd party OS does that for you then you’re already done.
I would be surprised if the average person knew how to install an OS. The OS generally comes with the PC so the average user never need to install an OS. I imagine the average user doesn’t even have a USB stick to turn into bootable media and that’s just the first step. You have to know how to turn it into bootable media (the easiest way expects you to already have Windows) and then if the BIOS doesn’t automatically boot into it you have to know how to go into the BIOS to change the order and then you have to get through the installation. No average user is going to get through all that. Anyone doing that is already capable of installing Linux themselves and they’re probably more willing to give Linux a try because they can always install Windows if they don’t like it.
I would bet against this. I think people who buy a steam machine (and same for steam deck) will know what they get into.
And the device is focused on gaming and the games will probably run worse on that hardware if one installs Windows. Therefore I think that people who want to use Windows will not buy a steam machine.
But maybe time will proof me wrong.
That guy was roasted on Twitter for that comment, and rightfully so. Most bug reports came from Linux users because Linux users actually know how to file them. Windows users are learned helplessness little rats, they see software as black boxes and developers as evil wizards who don’t talk to anyone. Complaining about software to them is speaking to the Eldrich gods and risks burning their retinas and throwing them into madness by their answer.
Linux user knows that software is just something people do, and if you ask nicely and comcompetently, then a human being will try their best to assist you. Above all, Foss users are drilled that if something doesn’t work, report it so it might get fixed in the future. It’s part of the collaborative effort into software openness, bug reports are free QA. Unlike proprietary culture that sees bug reports as customer support requests.
It was a most poignant situation because, as reported by another developer who blogged about Linux support positively, all of the bug reports filed by Linux gamers are about bugs that affect everyone playing the game and not Linux specific support requests. Since Linux users know how to file bug reports and have done so before, they are usually of higher quality than Windows users bug reports who don’t know how to extract information out of their system or might not even have the tools to do so.
Yes, I recall that one developer saying that Linux users provided ultra-detailed, highly technical bug reports that helped immensely in finding and fixing bugs for everyone, or something like that. I think they even said that Linux users were in a way providing free QA.
Edit: ah, yes, I see you linked the positive post below. Thanks!
Had to look up the tweet specifically for this. So here it is
It’s not actually bug reports and it wasn’t the majority. It was automated crash reports where over 20% came from Linux which at that point amounted to less than 0.1% of the sales and most of them were driver related issues. That issue is hopefully solved as driver support has gotten better over the years, but it had nothing to do with Linux users reporting more often or being more thorough in their bug reporting.
Complement with the alternative view offered by the developer of ΔV: Rings of Saturn. Also, there’s a lot of erased responses and contradicting tweets he made.
You think Gabe Newell hates Microsoft so much that he has his company contribute to Linux and open source, simply out of spite?
Not sure about hate, but the entire Steam Machine thing happened because Microsoft was making noise circa Windows 8 that they were going to take the platform more closed and require sourcing software from the Windows Store, which would shut out things like Steam. So they said “Okay, we’ll make our own operating system with blackjack and hookers. We could take the PC gaming market with us, and we’ll even come for the living room console market and threaten Xbox while we’re at it.” And if anyone in the world is going to get that done, it’s Valve.
He doesn’t want his company to be beholden to another for it’s future.
Look at all the issues phone app companies have when Google or Apple just kills their businesses on a whim with a tweak of their terms of service language.
95% of users are on Windows. If MS one day again decided they’re going to try to limit apps to their own store, much like they did with Windows 8 (which is what kicked this whole thing off) or like Android is suddenly doing right now, Steam will be absolutely fucked without an alternative. So SteamOS exists to give them that parachute. They can keep the freedom of PC without the dedication of creating an entirely new desktop OS.
There was no mention of motive, just of the consequences. Microsoft going the Apple/Google path was/is an existential business threat to a company like Valve. Microsoft’s coming up short on MS Store mitigated the risk, but still you have a platform that is geared toward Microsoft subscription revenue.
Just because those business concerns factor in, doesn’t detract from the positive ways that it has gone so far.
Considering he helped create Windows while working at Microsoft, and allegedly left due to the direction it was going, yes.
He has stated as much, so, yeah.
I mean he quit working for Microsoft and started Valve because he disagreed with their direction.
Yes, actually.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
“We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well,” said Mr Newell.
“Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space.”No one liked Windows 8. This doesn’t really prove anything.
I don’t think that was Gabe “hating” Microsoft; I think it was him recognizing that the Windows Store/appx stuff that Windows 8 pushed was a threat to his business model.
Yes, this is exactly the analysis that I read back then. The Windows Store presented a clear and present danger to Valve’s business model, so it seems that he concluded that the best way to attack it was to make Linux a viable competitor. That’s some long-term thinking right there, which seems to be rare in corporate leadership for a while now.
That is a completely valid reason to hate Microsoft. Who the fuck wants another Apple?
I don’t think that is true, but I certainly like the idea of it being true.
I doubt it. On the Windows platform, Valve has to do what Microsoft decides. If Microsoft decides all apps are required to go through the Microsoft store app then Valve would be toast.
Good reason to have an independent gaming OS, I suppose 😉
If Microsoft ever pulled this play at least EU probably would like to have a word. Microsoft already got kicked in the balls over here for such moves, and it hurt.
Yes, but also money.
Is it really “worth remembering”? The past is passed. They’re not the same company and the PC space is not the same as it was back then. Who cares?
“Why remember the past, Just forget it and all the problems it had. They surely cant happen again, especially if we just ignore that they happened in the first place!”
Its no wonder the world is falling apart with people holding onto logic like this.
PCGamer’s advertisers care.
How will Corsair sell $500 cases and $300 water cooling systems, with $600 of attached fans to people just buying a SteamDeck.
PCGamer’s advertisers need the clueless to think that buying all that is essential.
I have a pi-hope and I’m running Wipr 2… a LOT of blank white space on that page hahaha
Why would you spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a PC that used a brand-new operating system and had a gaming library a fraction of the size of that of Windows machines?
I had one of the old Alienware Steam Machines. I know it wasn’t a popular answer, but my answer to this was that Windows was atrocious for the living room just like it’s atrocious for handhelds today, and I had easily and cheaply amassed a large library of Linux-compatible games even back then by way of Steam sales. But this wasn’t even the only problem. We only had OpenGL ports rather than lower level and more performant APIs like Vulkan. Running a marquis Linux title like Shadow of Mordor would come with a sizable performance hit compared to the Windows version, even when run on exactly the same hardware, and that would also require a machine that cost $200 more than a PS4 that could run the same game just as well.
The failure of the Steam Machine is why Valve hosted Khronos group at their office to kick off Vulkan and funded LunarG etc in the early days to get things moving quickly.
Valve took their time but this new hardware range is based on years of learning and solving the problems from their original foray into hardware and Linux for gaming.
And I’m so thankful for it!
Exactly this. I don’t own any Steam hardware, nor do I expect to any time soon. However, I don’t know if I’d be running Linux as my main daily driver if not for how straightforward it is to game on Linux nowadays, thanks largely to Valve’s efforts in this area.
I did dual boot with Windows for a while, but I found that the inertia of rebooting made me more likely to just use Windows. When I discovered that basically all of my games were runnable through Proton, I got rid of Windows entirely.
I feel a lot of gratitude for the Steam Deck existing, because it makes things way easier. It’s not down to Valve’s efforts alone, but providing the solid starting point has lead to the coagulation of a lot of community efforts and resources. For instance, there have been a couple of times where I’ve had issues running games, but found the solution in adjusting the launch options, according to what helpful people on protondb suggest. I also remember struggling for a while to figure out how to mod Baldur’s Gate 3, until I found a super useful guide that was written by and for Steam Deck users. The informational infrastructure around gaming on Linux is so much better than it used to be.
Really well articulated.
Valve have enabled a critical mass of “target platforms” that enables both the community and developers to get things working on Linux, which all other distros are about to benefit from.
I’m likely going to buy all the new Valve hardware out of principle. The Deck is incredible, but I still have my beefy gaming rig. But my living room wouldn’t mind a Steam Machine (and my girlfriend is definitely after both a Steam Frame and Controller 2.
I’m taking time off work in a couple of weeks and I’m moving over to Linux completely - I too have felt the inertia of dual booting and find myself in Windows far too often.
As someone who owned the Alienware one with windows 8 (and upgraded it to windows 10, and a 2TB SSD), I’m glad to find anyone else who actually bought one, especially the steam OS variant, and has expertise with it, rather than regurgitating what articles say.
So, funny story, I bought it as the Windows variant, because it was $50 cheaper for some reason. Bloatware subsidies, maybe? My roommate and I tried it for a little while, but using Windows from the couch sucked so much that I put SteamOS on it. My roommate only booted back to Windows to play Hearthstone. I just rocked whatever SteamOS would let me play local, since streaming games from my desktop in the other room wasn’t cutting it for me. I played through KOTOR2 on that machine, on SteamOS, and had a great time.
I was able to overclock it to a crazy level. Played all kinds of games on it between me and my roommate. It was finiky using big picture mode (I ended up buying a dedicated mouse and keyboard for it to use on a lapboard at the time), but BPM gave me trouble with controllers, refusing to quit to desktop, and hanging on launching games occasionally.
A lot of Dell’s BS software went the way of the dodo bird as soon as I could get rid of it for similar reasons. The update to windows 10 I also seem to remember giving me trouble. MS didn’t consider it supported hardware. But it all worked out and now that thing is my media center PC. It’s still running after all this time, which is crazy.
Oh, man - I can do you one better. I still have one of these, still hooked up and running. We use it as a game server for some low-requirement stuff… currently Vintage Story.
I bought the i5 varriant from ebay for $150 in 2016 that someone I think tried to pass off the yellow ring of death to me, as the system failed shortly after I bought it, BUT, it was still under original manufacturer warranty. I sent it in to dell with no proof of purchase requested from me, they sent my system back fixed, and accidentally gave me another steam controller in the box back, haha.
After getting it back, I wiped windows and have been running Ubuntu on it since then. Still using it as a HTPC right now, though it is getting long in the tooth for web video like YouTube, etc. Probably gonna be replacing it soon with something else, but 10 years of usage for $150 ain’t bad.
I want Amd to have 4k 120hz support on Linux please? Stupid hdmi forum.
I honestly don’t understand why anyone (OEMs) use HDMI when DP is seemingly superior in every way. Why don’t any TVs come with DP? Why don’t streaming boxes come with DP? It’s confounding me.
Because the TV manufacturers own the HDMI licensing body and make money from you for every device you buy with HDMI.
I also don’t get it… Just 1 DP port is sufficient for me… And before people are saying… just use a DP to HDMI adapter… Well, I tried… And it doesn’t work either for some reason… I still can not get 4k 120Hz. (yes my TV supports that, yes… I also tried “gaming mode” on my TV)
An adapter such as that requires DisplayPort Dual-Mode (DP++).
Uh… I bought this product (see link below) , but now I’m confused if this is an active or a passive adapter. Which adapter do I need for this… A passive or active adapter to get DP++ working?
This was the product I bought in the past: https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B0B2ZF95KC (the site doesn’t say anything about passive or active)
ps. I also hope my videocard and TV supports DP++ then.
EDIT: I also see DP1.4 to HDMI 2.1 cables (so without the need of an adapter). Is that also maybe a solution? Like this: https://www.amazon.nl/PremiumCord-DisplayPort-kabel-mannelijk-stekker-resolutie/dp/B0FKMNB65S
oh im pretty sure this purely market competiton, not between the two ports but between manufactures.
like if you want to compete with a company (ex. sony) who is making x tv with hdmi, ideally you want a similar product available that has the same ports. The goal is to sell into peoples already existing ecosystem and sadly its hdmi dominant.
one time when I was presenting in class, my laptop only had displayport and I just stood there like a dumbass waiting for my files to be avail on a donor pc. Is dp superior? yeah, but the whole world is hdmi :[
I mean just about every computer and monitor supports DP, it’s only TVs that refuse to support it for some reason.
okay so from what ive searched up, hdmi standard was a collaberation between hitachi, panasonic, maxell, philips, silicon image, sony, vantiva, and toshiba. Furthermore it “won” the support from a lot of entertainment companies like universal, warner, and disney.
;_; so basically, even though they came together to make a universal system, they spent money on it and therefore need to make the most out of it. All other manufacturers just follow along.
Okay so they all come together to create a standard that they can then charge others to use. Brilliant.
I switched to a display port monitor because of this.
That isn’t an option now with my htpc (home theater pc) connected to my TV.
This is exactly why they SHOULDN’T have named it Steam Machine. The Steam Deck was released and no one talked about Steam Machines. Call it Steam Machine and suddenly everyone is reminded of the colossal flop all those years ago.
I remember the flop, but since Proton and Steam Deck have been waiting for them to try again. In many ways it might be bad marketing and just adding a “2” to the name would probably help. But in other ways, it might just be them being transparent? Same with the controller. Like they’re owning their past and saying “we still want this, and the time is right this time”
This is the initial vibes I got but then again I might be bias because I’m already familiar with steam. Honestly, it might be better if valve added 2 to the end of their products. For example, The nothing phone company tried to do something “unique” with their earbuds but all that did was confuse the shit out of people. I think they reverted back to numbering them.
But then on the flip side, sony is infamously known to name all their products with a shit load of numbers… so tbh this can go either way lmao
edit: shit you might be right because:
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what is someone gonna type into youtube/google/ or any other search engine?
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what are they going to end up see?
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are they smart enough to understand the differences in products?
I’m trying to think of a scenario where someone would think twice about purchasing a steam machine just because a product from 10 years ago bombed in sales.This would require them to ignore the recent success of the steam deck… which is basically impossible.Therefore, I have doubts that the name alone would have ANY direct impact on salesthen again i think xbox is doing alright with their crazy similar names.
I think MS is transitioning from XBOX = console to XBOX = MS gaming, which is smart, but they’re just fumbling that communication.
Maybe its the norm in the gaming community like what the heck is a “NEW” nintendo 3ds lol. At this point everyone needs to fire their marketing team.
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A friend of mine thinks it is gonna flop (tbh nobody knows), only because of that prior flop, he refuses to acknowledge that they might have learned of their mistakes, and hardly acknowledge that the Steam Deck is a success, only because it is a different market (he truly doesn’t believe in Steam hardware).
I for one am excited as I don’t have any PC gaming at the moment (or Steam Deck lol), I have been a console (and mostly handheld) gamer since the old days, and this bet on Steam makes sense for me in this day and age.
Really, how many people cared about or even remember the original? The original program was a flop but that hasn’t tainted the name.
I remember it, and that memory is why this one kind of has me hopeful.
Same. I don’t have any immediate need for any of the newly announced hardware products, but I’m hopeful they succeed because they indirectly benefit me as a Linux gamer.
Spec for spec, its a little bit better than my PC, I may consider getting this instead of upgrading of it’s comparable in price.
how many people cared about or even remember the original
The people who wrote this article do. And now so does everyone that came across it.
I kind of wish they’d called em steam engines
There’s so few people that remember… Nobody cares.
And Steam Machine is going really hard as a brand and as a device name, really. I bet there’s a lot of salivating at this level of brand recognition in a lot of marketing departments.
I was holding out for the Steam Engine.
Game engine from Steam? Sounds like a logical next step.
Get the Steam Engine, from the Source :)
Does it matter though? You can put it as a failure that got so bad Valve eventually cancel it, or you can put it as a product that got good from countless iteration. Its kinda like glass half empty half full kind of situation which eventually doesn’t really matter.
Ask anyone who works in marketing if branding is important.
It is. “From failed product to global success” will also drum up a positive vibe about this particular hardware. What i meant by it is it doesn’t really matter if the previous iteration is a failure, what people really care and what’s important is the current iteration and what Valve learn from their past mistake, and the marketing team of Valve know exactly that. It’s marketing after all, turning negative vibe to positive one is part of the marketing strategy.
Going from YouTube comments on gaming channels that don’t focus on PC gaming or Linux, I don’t think many people remember the first Steam Machines from 10 years ago.
The goal of marketing is to get as many people as possible to be aware that a company’s product exists. These articles are doing just that, for free.
Initial sales will probably take a hit bc of the negative articles. I don’t think they’re being written bc valve decided to stick with the same name though. The articles are probably being written bc negative headlines get clicks.
If the new steam machine proves to be a solid product this time around then gamers are going to buy it. If it’s such a solid product that it manages to turn a product line that was once associated with failure and negativity into a product line that’s associated with success and positivity then I really can’t think of anything better the new steam machine could do for valve’s brand. The (hypothetical) articles comparing the huge (hypothetical) success of the new steam machine to the dramatic failure of the past will also be a bit easier to write a headline for. More free marketing.
lookin at the gpu stats, this is also a mess
