Title text:
Now that I’ve finally gotten an electric vehicle, I’m never going back to an acoustic one.
Transcript:
Transcript will show once it’s been added to explainxkcd.com
Source: https://xkcd.com/3214/
You must log in or register to comment.
A car powered by gasoline? It’ll never take off. I mean, what will you do if it runs out of gas? Start a war in the middle east?
Also imagine the logistics! You would have to refine the oil, get it from places all over the world and distribute it to all the gas stations all over the country. With electric cars you can just tap the already existing power grid.
I’m sure charging stations exist, but I’ve only ever seen one with my own eyes once (Brazil, major city)
In South Africa, I have seen plenty in the big cities, but nothing on the countryside.
I saw BYDs everywhere when I was there, but I don’t recall seeing stations, now that you mention it
Charge at home. I think most people do that. A quick unscientific stat looked up seems to indicate 80% charge at home in the US. Probably similar in other countries?
Meanwhile in Europe I take off for road trips with my EV that has very mid range, fully trusting there’s gonna be a station when I need one, at first I used to plan the trips around charges but quickly figured out it’s not necessary. If you have a newer model with big range then it’s really a total non-issue. Sucks to hear Brazil isn’t there yet but I’m sure the infrastructure will catch up soon.
Costco: 4000 pack of kirkland brand AA batteries…
In all seriousness, the transition of small devices away from AA/AAA batteries is very annoying. I always had batteries charged, now I have to constantly plug some junk in and wait?
I invested in some rechargeable NiMH AAs, and AAAs. Now sometimes I think i prefer some things with old school batteries just because of how convenient it is. Granted, that system wouldn’t work well for my headphones, or my phone. But seems just fine for the odd remote control, kitchen gadget or portable lamp.
Rechargeable AAs and AAAs have finally been perfected, I am kind of annoyed by things that have only internal batteries now, I don’t want them going to the landfill just because the cheap device died. Let me keep running the batteries for a decade in other shit.
The internal batteries often aren’t that hard to replace. If you can get the device open the batteries are standard sizes you can order and often just plug in. Except phones, phone manufacturing relies on pure evil
For decades we had battery packs that could be replaced. we have lifepo4 that’s super safe to handle, i don’t know why we don’t have replacable battery packs anymore :/
I have two sets of headphones, one older set that takes a AA and a new one that charges. I use the older ones constantly since when they die I just grab a NiMH AA out of the charger and pop it in, back in 10 seconds. New one…not so much
I bought a set for work that comes with 2 rechargeable lithium packs and an external charger so you can just swap as needed.
The problem is that what you actually do a roadtrip, (and you’re not charging at home on a normal “commute” day) is sit on your ass and do absolutely nothing for 45 to 90 minutes at a gas station in the middle of fucking nowhere, hoping no hick “jeds” see you hanging out at the Tesla charger and approach you to tell you that “yuu got a perddy mouf”.
You seem to have last looked at EVs in 2015. At 350kW, it takes about 7 minutes to charge.
A lot of EVs are currently advertising charge times of 30 minutes from 15% to 90%. Furthermore:
If theres a line for the charging station, everybody is gonna take 30 minutes, so you could realize you have a 2 hour wait.
If the battery is hot, it can take longer. If you just got off the highway, it could add another 15-30 minutes while the battery cools off.
7 MINUTES?! 7 minutes. To full. FROM EMPTY?!* 7. minutes.*
I don’t believe you. The last video I saw about road tripping with an EV was last year- this one.
Or just… rent a car?
If an EV supports all of my travel/commuting needs except one or two road trips per year, I’d rather just spend $65/day renting an ICE. The idea that you need to solve every problem with one privately-owned vehicle is part of why there’s so many idiots using F-150s for daily commutes.
That’s not unreasonable but I’m in a mood today so Get the heck out of here with your REASONABLE ARGUMENTS! :)
user.user.age = “9000”; Done.
He was one of that day’s lucky 10000
EVs as they are now, are only useful for rich people, for two reasons.
- Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max, meanwhile poor people drive cars that are at least 20 years old, since replacing the batteries costs usually as much as the whole car, there wont be any of those new electric cars on the road in 20 years.
Electric cars are essentially disposable, where they are expected to be destroyed or “recycled” instead of repaired.
Ofc rich people buy new cars every few years anyway, so it’s not an issue for them.
- There’s not enough infrastructure for charging electric cars, having to drive extra into a charging station which is usually being used and wait until said charger is free is a too much of an inconvenience for people who already don’t have any free time at hand.
A gasoline car can be fueled in 30 seconds + 2 minutes to pay, and there’s usually a line at most service stations. Even if there’s mass adoption and all gas stations were converted into EV chargers, even if it only takes 10 minutes to charge an EV, that is 12 minutes per person, it would still amplify the queue to the point where it would be impossible to get anything charged.
Ofc rich people can just charge in their backyard or garage at night, so not an issue for them either.
I’m not saying that EVs are bad, but there has to be serious investment in infrastructure and batteries need to be cheaper and cheaply REPLACEABLE in order for the poor to be able to adopt EVs
Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max,
Real world studies are showing they last about an average of 12-15 years on average, and every manufacturer has a warranty for at least 8 years, with many up to 10.
A gasoline car can be fueled in 30 seconds
The typical passenger gas station pump flows at 7.9 gallons per minute. For most passenger cars and trucks, with tanks between 15 and 35 gallons, that’s about 2-5 minutes of pumping.
A typical level 3 charger will take a battery from 10% to 80% in about 25 minutes. And chargers can be in places where gasoline pumps can’t be, like ordinary parking lots and garages. So the dual purpose parking where you can charge the car while you shop at the grocery store or work out at the gym or sleep overnight at home is just a completely different paradigm from what we’re used to.
The average car lasts about 12 years, by the way. EVs last basically as long as ICE vehicles. Which also makes sense, because it doesn’t have to mix the fluids that lubricate and cool with combustion residue and foul up the engine that way.
So your data is out of date, and those fears that were commonly cited in 2015 have pretty much proven to be false for the technology that was around in 2015. Now, in 2026, there’s been even more advances in managing battery/charging health and chemistry, with more of an infrastructure for maintenance, repair, and charging.
Real world studies are showing they last about an average of 12-15 years on average
And that’s a problem for ppl who buy 20 year old cars.
A typical level 3 charger will take a battery from 10% to 80% in about 25 minutes. And chargers can be in places where gasoline pumps can’t be, like ordinary parking lots and garages. So the dual purpose parking where you can charge the car while you shop at the grocery store or work out at the gym or sleep overnight at home is just a completely different paradigm from what we’re used to.
Yes, you are right, I take back my “converting gas pumps into EV chargers”, that situation can be solved by having more charge points in other places, unfortunately, as things are know, I know from an EV drive himself that it’s almost impossible to find a free charger at least where I live.
The average car lasts about 12 years, by the way. EVs last basically as long as ICE vehicles
I guess that greatly depends on where you live, since you said “gallons” before I’m assuming US, at least here few people I know can afford a 12 years old car.
So if you’re in a country where it’s economically feasible to continue maintaining cars beyond 15 years, why wouldn’t you think that the much cheaper electric cars wouldn’t dominate the market even more?
Compared to the U.S.'s low adoption rates, EVs sell at higher rates in certain rich countries like Norway and Denmark, middle income countries like China and Turkiye, and poor countries like Estonia and Nepal. The cheapest EVs, globally, are cheaper than the cheapest ICE vehicles.
And that’s a problem for ppl who buy 20 year old cars.
The cost of maintaining a car to last 20 years can be applied to EVs and ICE cars alike. I suspect that EVs will be easier to maintain to those ages. In the U.S., that doesn’t really happen in large part because our labor and parts network is expensive enough that buying new is comparably cheaper than repairing, past the 15 year mark, for most vehicles. EVs don’t actually change the equation any.
Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max
Most manufactures offer 8 or 10 year warranties. Batteries are expected to last the life of the car (10-20 years). This is similar to the expected lifespan of the engine, because it’s designed that way rather than being a fundamental limitation of the technology, same as contemporary car engine lifespans.
Electric cars are essentially disposable
All cars are expected to be recycled when major components are damaged or worn out.
Ofc rich people can just charge in their backyard or garage at night, so not an issue for them either.
Charging in your driveway works fine, and you might be overstating the percentage of people who live in apartments and also have a car. Maybe true in your locality but not mine.
I’m not saying that EVs are bad, but there has to be serious investment in infrastructure and batteries need to be cheaper and cheaply REPLACEABLE in order for the poor to be able to adopt EVs
Replaceable batteries make the car cost more, not less, same as engineering in easily swappable engines (some tanks have this, no cars do). The big thing you’re not getting is that POOR PEOPLE DON’T BUY NEW CARS. The only thing required for adoption of EVs by poor people is a healthy supply of used EVs.
Batteries are expected to last the life of the car (10-20 years)
But that’s the problem, because the manufacturer always expects the car to last less than what it really does, poor people buy cars long after their “expected lifetime” has passed, (that is, when the previously owner considers the car to be too unreliable him), that’s when the person who is scrapping by, buys the unreliable car because it’s the only he can afford, now, repairing an old car as it keeps breaking down is expensive, but it’s still doable and much cheaper than buying a new car. But if the batteries are dead and the price of batteries cost as much as they seem to cost, then there’s no way to fix the car.
Also I’m septic if an electric car battery can last 20 years at all, there isn’t any good data on it, but if it uses the same technology as laptops Lithin-ion I don’t see it lasting much more than 10. From my experience Lithin-ion don’t lose capacity in a linear fashion, it’s more like a cliff, one day the laptop lasts an our, next day lasts 10 minutes.
All cars are expected to be recycled when major components are damaged or worn out.
You see, that’s the problem, it’s “Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle”, recycling should be the last option when the object really is at it’s limit and can’t function (and be fixed no more), if things are build to be durable then there’s no need to recycle them.
Charging in your driveway works fine
Would be fun to test how long I could set a power cord down from my apartment window into the driveway without it being stolen or vandalized. Or maybe the police would find some law to fine me for that.
Replaceable batteries make the car cost more, not less, same as engineering in easily swappable engines
Yes, but the lifetime of the car will be much longer, so when you equate the price of the vehicle to it’s useful lifetime it actually becomes cheaper.
The big thing you’re not getting is that POOR PEOPLE DON’T BUY NEW CARS
Yes, and that’s exactly what I’m saying, if poor people don’t buy new cars, and there are no old electric cars in the market because their batteries expired and the cars got recycled instead of repaired.
Batteries only last 5 to 10 years max
Source? I thought we don’t really have sufficient real live data, but it seems like the batteries last longer than was expected. And it’s not that they completely break, it’s just that they lose capacity meaning range.
that is 12 minutes per person, it would still amplify the queue to the point where it would be impossible to get anything charged.
According to this estimate you simply would need 5-6 times more charging points than fueling points, which is already the case for the majority of gas stations at highways where I live.
So, I’m going off of talking to mechanics and a lot of YouTube. But theres a few ways to slice it.
Most batteries aren’t experiencing total failures, which was more common on your electric cars of 15+ years ago (think Nissan leaf). But they lose capacity as they are used. 25% after 5 years is common. After 10 years it could be 50%. An EV advertised with 300 miles of range only really gets 250 from a full charge when it’s really cold out, by the time it’s a 10 year old car that could be anywhere from 90-140 miles depending on how the battery is holding up. And it still takes just as long to charge to 100%.
When a car loses this much performance, most people would say it “needs” a new battery. Not really sure how long cars manufactured 2020 and later are going to last before a complete failure on average, it might be 15-20 years. But even after the first couple years they are losing performance.
This is why EVs fetch extremely low prices used, and a lot of people recommend leasing rather than buying them. Because you can’t make or fix a battery at home, and the price of a new battery is $10k-$20k on a car that, probably, is starting to get other issues and has little or no service availability (since most owners are junking them).
So currently, a $30k Corolla is going to be worth far more 5 years after purchase than an $80k whatever EV you care to name.
Batteries are about 30% of the price of a full car, which is a lot, but significantly less than 100%. You definitely have an incentive to replace them instead of the full car.
To replace most of them, you need to unscrew the 4 big bolts that hold it, remove the dead one, put a new one in and rescrew the 4 big bolts. This is made difficult by the 700kg that the batteries weigh, but is doable if you have the equipment to lift and move heavy things.
Your issue is Tesla. Tesla has an absurd and dangerous battery design to make their models as flat as possible. I will not list the reasons why Tesla should not be used as a reference
I am not sure why you are stating that only the rich can charge at home, it is much cheaper than charging at a station. Fast chargers do sometimes have a queue issue, but it’s not as bad as it would be at a gas station with three lanes. They’re not converting gas stations to charging stations, they’re adding chargers to parkings that can charge dozens of car in parallel. And you won’t use them often because it’s so pricey.
The main issue with your second arguments and the anti EV sentiment in general is that most people seem to think you have to fill them up like gasolin cars.
Everyone that lives in a more rural area can simply plug them in at home and charge overnight. And I don’t mean with a fancy private chraging point, a simple 3 phase AC plug will fill your car to 100% in about 8 hours. Even if you only have access to a 230V AC socket, you can still get ~4% per hour, which nets you 50% charge over night, in other words about 150-200km. The power grid doesn’t care much since the average load in the night is usually a lot lower.
For more urban areas there is a need for more infrastructure, yes, but even then you don’t really need superchargers. 11/22kW chargers in public and private parking lots can be built in bulk, are a lot cheaper and are enough for 90% of what the people need.
The only people that need superchargers are:
-
People that live and work in high population cities. Most of what they drive with their cars could have been done with public transport if they live and work in the same city, so not too much sympathy from me here. As for grocery shopping and the like, a huge array of 11kW chargers at the supermarket would solve that problem since most people in that area would need to charge like once a week.
-
People that drive 200+km a day. Sure it happens, probably more than I think, but in overall numbers they only constitute a few percent of the cars on the road at any given time.
People that live and work in high population cities. Most of what they drive with their cars could have been done with public transport if they live and work in the same city, so not too much sympathy from me here.
You’re assuming that all high population cities have an efficient public traffic system, unfortunately that couldn’t be forwarder from truth, at least in my city, while for some places I can take the metro and it’s actually faster than driving, other places are dependent on very old busses that only show up once per hour and
sometimesmore often than not, don’t show up at all.
-
What we need is a magazine/renting system (e.g. drive battery empty, replace it at a charging station)
Afaik some e-roller in asian countries already have this for the small motorcycles.
Now make it motorized/automated/easy to do and boom: New gas station.Most people live in apartments or rent. Plug in hybrids sound more feasible for now until the infrastructure is better. I know I can’t afford a charger and upgrade to my house to get an electric car. I’m intrigue by the Hyundai ionic5 n, but where do I park it to charge? I’ve driven many electric cars and even the low power ones feel nice to drive because of the torque. The audi etron and Hyundai ionics are awesome.
For the blackout concerns: if you have solar panels, irrelevant, actually you’d be in a better place than with an ICE car. Also, if you have a garage, a fairly powerful generator cost peanuts compared to the price of a car, and some can run on gas cilinders and gasoline. Way safer to store gas cilinders than gas.
Batery longevity: I read an article that reviewed longevity, now that there is enough data, and most cars had better longevity, by far, than expected, except for some early models, like 1st Gen leafs. These had lower longevity, attributed to lower capacity batteries that had to be recharged a lot more. Higher capacities, coupled with way better charging circuits and logic, make for way more durable batteries.
Public charging costs is a valid concern.
Long drives. Decades ago I drove with my ex and my in laws from Madrid to Brussels in one go. 2 of us taking turns.I swore to never do more than 800 Km in one go. We did it in a largish car, pretty comfortable. Yeah, no.
Recyclability: most of ICE cars are recyclable, even much of the plastics, which are used to make floor mats, soundproofing, etc. Most of the car is metal, copper and aluminum being especially valuable.
Joy of driving. Once you experience the insane torque and acceleration of EVs, even the smaller ones, you won’t want a stick, unless you have a true sportscar.
I drive a 26 year old car, which I will keep until it has a catastrophic failure, love the thing. Not a major failure ever. Next will be an EV.
I have 25 and 23 year old cars. Pretty much the only thing that would cause me to get rid of them would be a crash or the frame rusting out.
I’ve replaced motors and rebuilt trans on each of them respectively. And I’ll continue doing that. Parts are still easily accessible and when they aren’t anymore, pretty much everything is metal and a machine shop can fab something up.
People conveniently forget that gas pumps are powered by electricity also. A person with solar panels and an ev is going to be in a much better situation in a large scale power outage than someone with a gas car.
I recall an ice storm where half the state was dark, and sure enough so were the gas stations. It was a fun conversation with my supervisor.
The majority of people who happen to be in cities aren’t helped by your setup.
My next car is going to have physical fucking knobs and buttons.
I’m not buying another car with a tablet to control the media and the climate, regardless of power source. If I have to buy a 10 year old rust bucket I will. I’m not going back to the tablet until there’s literally no other option available.
I have a Kia e-niro which is pretty decent. It has a touchscreen for navigation, but the climate controls, radio etc are all physical
Recyclability: most of ICE cars are recyclable,
There’s no reason to expect this will be any different with EVs. There are already companies claiming better recycling rates, but they can’t scale up yet because there are not enough retired EVs
…yeah, five hundred miles is a pretty good run, especially with slow speed limits…
…stateside i’m usually spent after twelve hours solo, which will carry you about a thousand miles, although my wife will power through 1250 miles driving in shifts (but that makes for an exhausting day)…
As an EV owner, I have recieved an interesting amount of reasons why people won’t buy them:
- The autonomy is not real (so far it’s been in my case and in any case, in italy, for how people drive, the declared consumptions are all fake because people here only drives by pressing the accelerator to the bottom)
- What if there’s a blackout in the whole city and you can’t charge your car? (The whole city, for a long time? I’d be worried about other stuff, but go on…)
- What if all the public plugs are occupied when you want to charge and you find yourself without battery to go to "ork tomorrow? (ALL OF THEM? At the same time? And why are you waiting to charge your car until it reaches 1% charge?)
- What if you come back from a long trip and have a 10% battery remaining and then you recieve an emergency call and have to leave immediately and you can’t because the 50-60km you have in your battery are not enough to reach your destination? (I can get to a quick charge station and get 200km in 15mins or so? The world is not ending? And if it’s THAT urgent then I should be calling an ambulance anyway, because I probably need one)
- I don’t want an automatic car! I love changing my gear! (Thank fuck I got rid of the clutch and the gears… never been happier when I drive!)
- Ah… but the speed, the torque of a thermic sports car… (Dude, you can’t afford a sports car, what the thell are you talking about? And even if I can’t either and I have a pretty average EV, you should just press the accelerator of an EV to the bottom and see for yourself)
- But it’s all about the feeling… the sound… (oh, I get it now… you want to “feel powerful” making everyone look at you and your noise making machine… yeah, I can’t compete there, and I don’t even want to anyway)
- But the electricity is made by burning fuel! (Most of it comes from green sources and, anyway, what the hell do you think your car run on? Water? Are you not very intelligent?)
- But the lithium comes from child labor!! (Says while casually using their iPhone, wearing clothes made in a third world country…)
After this, they usually proceed to make absurd claims like "I don’t care, I just don’t trust EVs.
If it helps, my EV technically has a manual transmission. 100% of gear shifts are manual (it only has a single reduction gear).
The major complaint I hear is that it takes forever to charge. It’s fine for commuting if you charge at home/work, but sounds a bit rough for road trips and the likes.
I often see people at the gas station’s plug just watching videos or reading a book outside, doesn’t make me want one. Hybrid though I could see myself buying.
Depending on the car and budget: It totally is.
At work we have a VW eUP.
Charges at a snail pace (¼ = 60-90ish km at 2-3h).Yes it’s fine most of the time but if we swap it between on-site visits one really has to wait or risk not coming home (and don’t get me started on the landmine of charging infrastructure).
German news about the whole infrastructure: https://youtu.be/GQ2hbLzfQ54
TLDW: Close a contract with one provider (e.g. your supplier at home), pay tripple the amount because that charging station is from another provider. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Most cars come with fast charge in DC. You can add a good amount of range in like 15-20 minutes. The ones not coming with fast charge are mostly city cars that don’t need it anyways.
To point 5: there are companies that sell electric crate motors, pre-configured to couple with your transmission’s bell housing. Hell, some of these companies sell the entire conversation kit, or will do the entire conversation for you. These conversions give you a completely offline electric car that keeps an older car from going to a junkyard, and reduces the materials needed for an updated car on the road. Also, if someone is concerned that a new electric car has the same carbon footprint as an internal combustion vehicle, recycled and reclaimed batteries are an incredible option.
If you’re going to do one of these conversions on a standard transmission car, you’ll probably want to pay some professionals anyway to tune it so that you don’t shred your clutch when you shift. I almost did this with my old '95 Explorer, but it had some suspension issues that I wasn’t willing to tackle at the same time. Plus, my neighbor told me that one of his friends had their car destroyed in a flood, but talked about how they always wanted a classic Explorer in exactly my color, so I gave it to her.
Very much similar to my own experience. The blackout is the funniest, because gas stations don’t work in a blackout, while solar panels do (assuming you disconnect them from the grid).
I would add one:
- But I couldn’t drive 1.000km without stopping (how often do you do that? It doesn’t seem safe anyway…)
My father in-law uses that added argument all the time. Who the hell needs to drive for 10 hours straight without taking a 30 minute break.
Oh, yeah! I forgot that one!
When you ask them how many times they found themselves with a thermic car doing 1000km without stopping they usually tell you: never, but what if I had to?
Bitch, if you need to do 1000km without stopping, you should be taking a train or a plane. Driving 10-12 hours without a single stop is bad and dangerous.
This was something I realized when we drive to my wife’s parents. It’s 2,000 km each way from our house in the US to where they are in rural Quebec, Canada and we usually drive it twice a year. The charging times sound long, but even with our petrol car most of our stops end up being between 15 to 30 minutes anyways between fueling the car, taking the dog to grass, taking turns going to the toilet so the dog isn’t alone in the car, getting food and giving me a chance to eat so I’m not trying to drive and eat at the same time.
I think the real challenge of electric range anxiety is that it still takes planning, at least in some parts of the US. There are areas on our route where it might be 100 kilometers to the next fast charger, and there’s no guarantee that all of them will be working or compatible with a car’s fastest charging speeds. We don’t really have to think about where we’ll get gasoline; there’s pretty much always a station, often several, within the next few miles. Usually if we’re waiting to stop for fuel it’s because we’re looking for the best price, looking for a place that might have decent toilets, and/or might have an appealing food option along with the gasoline. That’s all manageable in electric but might need some advanced planning, and many American drivers aren’t used to doing that kind of route planning in advance anymore.
How many cars in Europe can drive 1,000 km without stopping anyways? The only ones I can think of offhand are large American pickup trucks intended for towing large trailers long distances. I wouldn’t expect to see them in Europe.
Any diesel can drive more than 1000 km with a full deposit. But laws forbid in some countries to drive more than 2 hours or 300 km without stopping.
deleted by creator
The only somewhat valid use case for “driving 1.000km without a stop” would be several people in the car taking turns on the driver’s seat. While you’d technically need to stop to switch drivers this in itself is way quicker than even a quick charge on paper.
BUT: considering traffic jams, speed limits and such - a 1.000km trip would take around 10+ hours anyway. You’re not going to tell me that you do not even stop to pee or stretch a bit for 10+ hours, do you?
While growing up my family once a year would take a 20 hour car trip to visit extended family for a couple weeks then 20 hours back. Parents would do five hour shifts and get the whole thing done in one go. Shift changes meant refuel, bathroom, that’s it. Other than that there was no stopping unless it was a “the next bump in the road I will 100% shit myself” kind of an emergency
Now personally I’d argue maybe we shouldn’t have been taking road trips in that manner because it’s like putting your body through a meat grinder. But if trips like that are someone’s goal I doubt there are many charging stations in the middle of absolutely nowhere that can fully charge an EV in the time it takes to pee. I’m hoping though maybe a shift to EVs will change the way people approach long road trips to actually force them to take breaks
It takes just one small change …. My family did similar, but those stops were planned for mealtimes. We either did fast food or brought a camping stove, but always ate outside the car. Kids were encouraged to “run down to the end of that path with the dog”. Anyhow, the presence of even a fast food meal meant that there would have been plenty of time to charge.
gas stations don’t work in a blackout,
…do US statioms not have their own generators?
No idea about the US, but not in Europe. It was a major problem with the last blackout in Spain and Portugal.
I am asking because I worked in gas station in Poland and we had backup generator. xD
How are you going to fill those generators if the pump has no power?
Checkmate atheists
My reason for not buying an EV: it’s still a fucking car. Bit less shit, but still shit.
That should be Number 1 Reason to not buy an EV!
Well yeah if you can avoid it you shouldn’t buy a car, but if you have to buy a car you should buy electric
Agreed! EVs are certainly superior to ICE cars, but they’re a band aid instead of a solution.
Bring back public transit!
I mean, technically, an eBike is an Electric Vehicle, and not a fucking car. Otherwise, hard agree.
Fuck cars alright, but as long as I’m dependant on a car, my no.1 reason to get an EV is that I hate the oil industry even more. Fuck their oil and money and pollution and fuck their wars and politics.
Another point to add for 9, all the EV parts can be recycled. The metal body is recycled in to new cars and battery components are also recycled in to new batteries.
Relevant technology connections video
- I don’t want an automatic car! I love changing my gear!
This is me. I have a hybrid car and I miss the stick every time I drive it.
The problem is those days are gone, even without EVs. Between modern automatics more efficient and longer lasting, and cheap reliable CVTs (also more efficient), manual transmissions have no future. I also prefer driving a stick, and frequently complained about limited availability in the US, but technology has passed it by
cheap, reliable CVT
I may be out of date but Nissan’s CVTs self destruct very effectively and Subaru’s don’t handle the torque of the H6 so well. They’re still unpleasant to drive. Give me an EV every day.
My experience across three 2014+ Subarus with CVT has been flawless. Not the H6 though, all flat 4
I’ve been there, I did manual -> hybrid -> electric.
I did miss the stick when I was driving an hybrid. In the hybrid it felt like was I had to give away some of the control I had on the car by not being able to change gear.
With the EV on the other hand it’s totally different, the car is way more responsive, there is power the moment I press the pedal and the concept of gear disappear.
I don’t miss driving with a stick when driving an EV
It’s like in a videogame. Power from the start.
Here’s a financial argument. The initial purchase price is too high for me, and the depreciation of electric vehicles is also very high. Overall cost of ownership per distance driven is lower if I drive a small gasoline-powered car.
I really don’t want it to be that way, but that’s the reality I have to deal with. Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.
Must be a Europe thing. I ran the numbers in America and avoiding gas cost (vs electric cost per mile) means the car paid for itself after 30k miles. And that’s ignoring that it needs no maintenance.
I thought European gas was expensive. Is the electricity over there also really pricey?
It depends where you live. We have cheap gas and I live in an area with one of the more expensive prices for electricity (and there are worse), but “filling up” at home is much cheaper than “filling up” my ice car.
However
- yes, we only have expensive EVs here. You can make up an extra $5k of purchase price with money saved on operations, but $10k or more is much harder
- trip chargers are already in a race for exploitation, profit seeking. Except for Tesla, prices are high, maintenance is low, and they compete for trapping customers more than attracting them
- since EVs became political we are currently off balance between supply and demand, so used cars are over supplied and lost much value. The quickly changing technology just makes it worse
so used cars are over supplied and lost much value
Perfect time to buy one then
Yes, I’ve argued that too. While there is the factor of fast changing technology, I think used EVs are a great buy right now.
I’m not in the market for an additional car although I’ve actually been tempted anyway …. I have two college kids sharing my old Subaru and it would prevent a lot of fights if I had another old vehicle for them
Then again my older kid just applied for a summer job with like 90 miles each way commute so may not be appropriate for limited or unknown range
Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder. Buying a used EV is probably my best bet in about 5-10 years from now.
Specific cost of ownership (as in €/m) is what actually matters in the end, but most people ignore it. Usually people just compare gasoline and electricity prices and draw their conclusions based on that. That sort of analysis is not going to give you a very reliable picture.
Regardless, if I had the money to drive a BMW, buying an EV would be a simple decision. Who cares about the purchase price, ongoing expenses or depreciation when you have that much money. Since I’m not in that market segment, EVs aren’t really a viable option for me just yet.
TCO is even better for electric. Near zero maintenance. The depreciation is real, but only if you plan to sell it at it’s half life. If you plan to hold it a long time, depreciation evens out.
My EV is ten years old and cost $30k. It’s paid for itself twice over in just gas. More if I factor in the zero maintenance (not totally zero. I changed the tires a few times and had to replace a trunk component). The resale on it is about $8k lower than an equivalent ICE. But for me, the EV was a good deal.
I’d definitely recommend getting a used one though. I bought mine new, and that makes the numbers worse.
The way I see it, rich people can buy new cars. Everyone else who needs one should consider buying a used one instead. After a few years, depreciation isn’t quite so rapid any more, which makes TCO less of a burden.
Maintenance expenses do increase as the car ages, but as long as it isn’t like 25 years old, it’s not completely absurd. Currently, I’m looking to buy something that is about 5 years old, and then sell it when it begins to require frequent maintenance. That way, I should be able to avoid the two expensive extremes.
However, there’s another nasty twist. Cold environment will murder the NMC cells in no time. Not too long ago, I had to leave my car in a cold parking lot for a long time, and when I got back it was about -30 °C. Fortunately, I don’t need to abuse the engine this way any more than maybe twice every year. Oh, boy did it sound unhappy with that cold start, but it managed it anyway. If I had an EV, I would probably need to leave it at home, and take a bus for horribly timed trips like that.
Let’s say, about 6 times a year, I’ll have badly timed trips, with temperatures hovering around +5…-15 °C: That isn’t a complete disaster for EVs, but it’s still very bad for the cells. Some cars have a built-in heating system for the battery, so I guess that feature would see frequent use. When I’m eventually buying a use EV, having a battery heating system is going to be a completely non-negotiable feature.
With point 2 you can now use a real life case. Last year the Iberian peninsula had a blackout that lasted more than a day. The combustion engine cars could not pump petrol because guess what: pumps need electricity.
- Blackout
Eh? What if there’s a gas supply issue? Can’t fuel up. I’ve experienced this after a natural disaster disrupted gas deliveries. Lines for blocks. Days to wait.
Not to mention what if someone does something silly like start a war and push the price of oil up. Solar does not increase in price after it’s made.
Doesn’t mean they can’t raise it :>
2: I wonder what those people think a gas pump runs on?
If there is no electricity, then those won’t pump either.
For a lot of people it’s number 7 and I mean, that’s sad
1 is real though, and it can be a pain
There’s also the case where some areas are isolated and there’s no charger nearby and that can be a pain, and yea, that’s not a good spot to be in
Finally, if you can’t charge at home, you’re not really going to save on electricity price compared to fuel, so that’s not the best purchase, and it might be a pain to charge frequently outside if you have an cheap car that charges slowly
In the worst case scenario (very high KWh price), charging is almost the same price for the same distance. In the best case (at home) is 10x cheaper.
I wonder how many of those would not apply to hybrid cars.
Also, for 8: Making car go by burning fuel in a big optimised plant is likely more efficient than doing it in an engine that has to fit inside the car.
My argument: When I can get a decent used EV for $5k, I’ll do it. Until then, I’ll just get a decent used ICE car for $5K.
I always thought this was one of the reasons for an EV incentive. Encourage more people like me to buy the expensive ones sooner to develop the market, guaranteed demand for manufacturers, but that also gets us faster to the point of cheap used EVs
My reason: the hybrid I have is still working fine and a new car and a new car won’t be in my budget for the next 10 years or so. Also iirc about 33% of the energy a typical car will ever use is spend on its production, so it’s better for the environment to use a car until it breaks down.
that’s completely fine. If your car works, you shouldn’t throw it away, that is wasteful.
Depends on the car. Waste of resources sure, but it can reduce emissions depending on the car
Unless their car is scrapped, this only results in another car being on the road.
New drivers will be new drivers regardless. It will most likely just end up as a stored car or a replaced car of another car
a replaced car of another car
Unless the ‘another’ car being replaced isn’t irreparably broken and just doesn’t suffice our MOT requirements, it’s probably ending in a 3rd world country and will remain in use there (probably instead a cheap light EV).
- What if there’s a blackout in the whole city and you can’t charge your car?
They couldn’t refuel their ice car either or how do they think the fuel is made to flow “uphill” from the tank in the ground into their car.
I feel like some of those points are slightly more valid in rural areas (especially in the US, where a power pole being knocked over means that the power is out for hours) where the people making those points are more likely to have grown up. Then again if you are not in a rural point of the united states you are less likely to need a car.
If I lived in rural US where the power is not guaranteed I would install PV and use my car as a power backup.
That sounds rather expensive (if PV is photovoltaic). And I was not aware that cars were built to supply power like that.
Yeah, I meant photovoltaic with PV. At least in Europe it’s gotten really cheap.
There are mutiple ways to use the energy that is stored in electric cards. There’s “Vehicle to Load” (V2L) for plugging appliances directly into the car, “Vehicle to Home” (V2H) for connecting your home to the car and “Vehicle to grid” for connecting the car to the power grid and selling the stored energy.
“Vehicle to load” is also useful when going camping or when you need power when there’s no outlet near you. You just need a car that supports it and a small adapter.
In America it’s gotten cheap too. You can buy panels at harbor freight these days
OK then what do you do if there are no chargers in range?
Charge very slowly using a regular plug in (level 1 charger) until you have enough range to get to a fast charger. Or call a tow truck like you would if you ran out of gas.
Proper charging infrastructure is important but there are far more electrical outlets out there than gas stations.
Too bad those outlets charge at a rate that you will be standing there until next day if you have a longer distamce to drive and can’t just sleep then and there.
There’s a crank on the front. Obviously.
This ain’t the model t age
I got an EV last year and I woulld never go back. It’s just so much better.
I like cars, I like the idea of EVs, I fucking hate modern cars (post 08 give or take) so imagine my opinions on most EVs. Just give me an electric Mule or a converted old beater I’ll be happy, if it’s basically anything else I better have the capacity to turn it into an EV equivalent of a dune buggy because I do not respect modern car design in the slightest, don’t care if it’s Chinese, Japanese, European, or American they all have shitty interiors an over reliance on electronics and generally have too many “comfort” features designed to compensate for incompetent design or drivers.
electric Mule or a converted old beater I’ll be happy,
That would be a 2016-2019 Nissan Leaf. No bells. No whistles. No problems.
Stupid design and interior.
Did you think “mule” somehow implied good looks?
Is this some new mule kink I’ve never heard of? No shame, is just new to me.
I will get an EV when the range/charge speed will allow me to make it 7 miles in 24 hours. And maybe if they’re small enough to fit in a passenger train.
I think you want a donkey.
Also I want it to be rechargeable with hay bales! …wait
You know electric motor assisted bicycles exist, right?
So do donkeys
Yes, but recharging those is messier and requires extra steps.
Plus I’m pretty sure that they’d be greeted with little enthusiasm on most passenger trains 😄
Oh come on, most people like a little ass.
Sure, but donkeys big enough to ride aren’t exactly little 😁
I will buy one when it is cheap enough that I van afford. Until then, no car.
Huge depreciation and not enough range. Probably wait till next battery revolution and it becomes cheaper than ICE
Depreciation is pointless if you plan to keep your car until it breaks. The range is mostly an excuse that people use to justify they don’t want an EV. Most cars today have at least 400km range and fast charge that’s quick enough to give you a good range from a 15 min stop. Nobody should be driving 1000km non-stop as they claim they’ll be (and which is the main reason they use to talk about the range).
Those cars are really expensive compared to entry level ones, which clearly don’t have fast charging nor big capacity
Big depreciation is definitely a risk. Having an option to sell gives more flexibility.
What car do u drive?
I recently got a byd atto 3. Really happy with it.
The depreciation I’ve seen, at least here, is not very different to the one I see in non-electric cars.
BYD is approved recently in my country. Hope this competition bring price down.
