Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.
Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated
i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it
That’s why I left. Its such a weird authoritarian way of dealing with stuff. Just ban everything and everyone you don’t agree with. Also make it a collective punishment while we’re at it…
Just ban everything and everyone you don’t agree with.
They were specific about what they didn’t agree with: Authoritarianism.
And if they don’t want to tolerate guests from an instance that allows Zionism, then good. Any feddit.org members who think their admins’ permissiveness is tolerable are complicit in the promotion of Zionism, even if they aren’t intentionally complicit. Yes, hanging around with pro-genocide people should earn punishment, such as ostracization until they stop hanging around pro-genocide people. It’s a social media account on the Fediverse, switching isn’t difficult.
We did the same thing to Wolfballs, until their admin closed the instance because it was filled with literal neo-Nazis calling the admin a ‘race-traitor’. Tolerating every belief is utopian, pointless and self-destructive.
I don’t particularly love db0 as a mainly hexbear user, but this is ridiculous. They did an absolutely gorgeous move by democratically voting to defed from Zionist instances, and you call that authoritarian. Defense against fascists is not authoritarian, it’s literally the opposite.
They really lost the plot when they joined the tankie triad.
It’s authoritarian to do direct democracy? OK then, I guess words mean nothing anymore.
The vote itself is not. This is not just about this single vote.
What is it about then?
The only issue with defederation from the ZioNazi bar is that I can’t see if they’re crying in here.
This solidifies my decision for migrating my account from there to piefed.social. Not because I support those views but because this means that many of the communities I’m subscribed to won’t be visible anymore from there. Personally I’ve not seen the problem in the mentioned communities but I also don’t actively participate in deep political discussions especially regarding Israel/Palestine since I don’t have the energy for that.
This solidifies my decision for migrating my account from there to piefed.social
but I also don’t actively participate in deep political discussions especially regarding Israel/Palestine
Showing your true colours here. By the way, it’s not “political discussions regarding Israel/Palestine”, call it by its name: genocide of Palestinians by Israel.
lol so you join the place with the social credit score
What is that?
piefed.social keeps a hidden trust score that goes down when people do stuff the piefed dev personally doesn’t like. there was recently a bunch of drama about it
Jesus fuck.
I have actually seen some influence agents pushing iran war and israel and such just lately. Usg must be expanding out to lemmy with their bs.
“I was just obeying the German laws” was not a credible defense in the Nürnberg trials, why are you repeating the same logic as the Nazis?
Yay anarchists! 👍
Boo zionists! 👎Classical Lemmy.ml comment
I thought .ml were disgusting authoritarian tankies, now tankies are also anarchists? Almost as if it was a left-punching slur all along :o
Sorry, what was that? I can’t hear you when you’re all the way over in defederation.
I think this is a stupid move, but it shows the shitty mindset, that evolved on db0. Bye!
The shitty mindset of checks notes not wanting Zionist fascists in a queer-friendly online space.
Showing your true colours here.
Nice. Props to db0
in a just, abolitionists society that doesn’t believe in the carceral system or death penalty so called “shunning” is a powerful thing. someone does something cruel that the community finds irredeemable? state the facts of what they did as publicly as possible so everyone knows and then shun them. let them either change their ways out of survival or parish while clinging to their bigotry and hatred. it’s the only solution that i’ve found.
Why would you argue for individualist self-reform instead of collective re-education of crime?
- Thank you for the shout out Salamence.
- You have made it easier to find Fascists to block🤝
glad to be of service
Now I need the full emoji-pack of this catgirl.
mmmm, so I still need to scrape&🪞. ᚦks🙇♀️
This will probably be unpopular but the leftist - liberal infighting is my least favorite part of the fediverse and why I usually end up having to give people a warning before telling them to get on the fediverse.
This drama is kind of the epitome of that
I can’t think of any “leftist organisations” that support Zionism ? Maybe you’re confusing fascist with leftist ?
I mean “leftist organization” is a weird term and I would more speak of currents. And there is definitely the Antideutsche or Anti-Germans.
The German left, at least the loud one, is publically dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.
Don’t be discouraged. Personally I don’t have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these “leftist” ignoramuses whose obsession with “Zionism” leads them to support literal fascism) but it’s important that somebody makes the points you’re making.
“Is genocide bad? Who can say, it’s just so complex!”
Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.
Seriously, imagine typing “there is often only ‘anti genocide and pro genocide’ in online discussions” and thinking “yes, I will post this and look like a very good and moral person”. Yes, if you’re not against genocide you’re for genocide. Yes, if you think supporting the resistance to genocide is antisemitic, you are a genocidal zionist. This type of “nuanced” “anti-zionism” (liberal zionism) is also widespread on feddit.org.
By fucking german law at that. And they enforce it too. Never again, as defined by nihlists with no soul serving the plutocracy while the far right takes their country from them and fixes elections while they are busy surrendering their people to tech.
One of them was extremely offended in another thread when I replied to them with “I was just following orders”.
What I think they meant was that people here only think about the genocide and thus declare the perpetrators evil (which they are) and the victims the good guys (hamas are not).
One side’s atrocities don’t justify the other side’s. Excusing your own group’s actions because they’re the good guys is far right thinking.
In reality there’s more factors to this than just the genocide, and both hamas and israel are the bad guys in their own way. One is just worse than the other, but that doesn’t make the other good.
In this particular conflict, Hamas very much are the good guys (if we have to think in such childish terms) in the same way that the allies were the good guys in World War 2 despite the fact they were mostly genocidal empires themselves. Hell, Hamas are far less evil than almost every western government, especially the German one, because they aren’t actively supporting mass genocide.
You condemn all groups actually fighting against Isreals genocide. That is just supporting the Genocide with extra steps
declare the perpetrators evil (which they are)
Correct.
and the victims the good guys (hamas are not)
You’re wrong, Hamas are in fact “the good guys” in this conflict. The resistance to the genocidal settler state are good even if they don’t measure up to whatever arbitrary standard of perfection you have in mind.
One side’s atrocities don’t justify the other side’s. Excusing your own group’s actions because they’re the good guys is far right thinking.
Bullshit framing designed to try to equate between the invading settler state (with overwhelming firepower) and the (barely adult on average) native resistance just trying to survive and protect their homes.
In reality there’s more factors to this than just the genocide, and both hamas and israel are the bad guys in their own way. One is just worse than the other, but that doesn’t make the other good.
“Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.”
You’re wrong, Hamas are in fact “the good guys” in this conflict.
The world will be better when humans will be able to escape this manichean thinking.
You’re wrong, Hamas are in fact “the good guys” in this conflict.
Let’s agree to disagree there then. I wasn’t planning to convince you after all.
ask an anti german what they think of muslims in the middle east :) it’ll be the most misanthropic thing you heard all day. anti germans are disgusting zionists and need to be shunned from leftist places. they are pro-genocide and there is no nuance to it. they are not part of the left, just delusional cosplayers
The German left, at least the loud one, is public ally dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.
This is all nonsense and you are indeed a zionist. Thank you for making it clear to everyone.
That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions.
Thank you again for clarifying which side you are on.
It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.
“Opposing Hamas makes you a Zionist”, can you confirm that statement?
You said supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Why are you crawling back to the word Zionism now?
Me
[…] people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy […]
You
It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.
Again you
You said supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Why are you crawling back to the word Zionism now?
Me
???people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism
This is a Zionist defense of Israel by conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism.
You believe it is evil to resist Isreals imperialism. That’s Zionism
Yes, opposing the main resistance to zionism makes you a zionist. Glad we all understand each other.
Edit: not that you’ll see this, I can see piefed.social dropping my replies to you because you have me (or maybe my instance) blocked.
You should have been bullied more in school.
Before Lemmy, I didn’t know it was possible to go so left that you hated liberals.
Corporate media didn’t want you to be exposed to any ideas outside of the Overton window.
Sometimes the further left extremes I’ve heard hear are indistinguishable from conservative Q-Anon. I legitimately need to check users post histories to understand which extreme they are on
It’s very easy to distinguish if you actually act in good faith, which you clearly don’t
They are very clearly distinguishable, just not to you yet. Until recently, you’d only ever heard disagreements coming from your right, so you confuse disagreements coming from your left with them.
- ‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense – the far right and far left have little in common
- Are the far-left and far-right merging together? That’s what the ‘horseshoe theory’ of politics says, but it’s wrong
Liberalism in fact has more in common with fascism than socialism: they’re both capitalist ideologies. Previously.I legitimately need to check users post histories to understand which extreme they are on
If you can’t tell the difference between “media companies serve the interests of their owners and managers” and Q-Anon, that might indicate a problem with you rather than with others.
Examples?
The comment I replied to vs. this from QAnon page on Wikipedia.
The cabal is thought to cover up its existence by controlling politicians, mainstream media, and Hollywood.
Only difference is that your side is “right”
You are reducing both sides to an extreme and extracting a single quote from both of them - “corporate media is lying to you to protect politicians preying on children” . You understand that one side is right and the other isn’t - where do you think the difference appears? Certainly not at the extreme surface level of a single quote you are picking.
All sides in WW2 were killing people, I literally can’t tell the difference!
The statement is that far left makes similarly culty statements like “X entity is hiding evidence that supports our views from the general public”. It’s the “everyone except us lies” part of the culty belief. My statement is that both far left and far right have fringe beliefs that are culty or close to it.
Billionaires/ruling classes owning the media for manufacturing consent is not a new idea, and even then, leftists/QAnon people have very different views on it anyway. Leftists don’t believe there is some secret cabal, the ruling class is very blatant. Right wingers believe in some deep state or the rothschilds, who are a jewish family, “control the narrative”, they don’t care about class struggle. This comparison makes very little sense.
Also-
QAnon centers on fabricated claims made by an anonymous individual or individuals known as “Q”. Those claims have been relayed and developed by online communities and influencers. Their core belief is that a cabal of Satanic,[3][4][5] cannibalistic child molesters in league with the deep state is operating a global child sex trafficking ring and that Donald Trump is secretly leading the fight against them.[9] QAnon has direct roots in Pizzagate, another conspiracy theory that appeared on the Internet one year earlier, but also incorporates elements of many different conspiracy theories and unifies them into a larger interconnected theory
I’m not seeing the relations to “left extremes” here at all. The horseshoe theory is a ridiculous, centrist concept. @davel@lemmy.ml 's comment has some good links.
I don’t believe the horseshoe theory. Far left and far right have a number of stark differences such as religion, economic policy, etc. I just believe that both sides are fringe cult-like environments, particularly when it comes to isolating yourselves and ideology control. Occasionally, I see other similarities.
Imo, far left isn’t clearly closer to the far right in most beliefs, except cult-like behavior
Only difference is that your side is “right”
lmao, you’re the perfect centrist. By your standard, “the Holocaust happened” and “white genocide in South Africa happened” are both equally valid statements. Do you see how ridiculous it is to just group statements by superficial similarity and treat them as equivalent regardless of the substance of the claims or the evidence?
I never said those were equal statements
Its such an empty criticism when they federate with the ml instances.
I don’t get it. Huh? I find sentiment on .ml extremely anti-Zionist.
they didn’t say it was hypocritical, just empty criticism. They are implying that ml instances are no less egregious about the types of bad content they allow, even if the content itself is different
They are implying that ml instances are no less egregious about the types of bad content they allow, even if the content itself is different
They are wrong.
You might be a little biased.
They’re pretty anti zionist. Only because Israel represents the west in all its brutality. They fully support the Russian invasion and genocide of Ukraine though, hence the hypocrisy.
They fully support the Russian invasion
wut? Even lemmygrad.ml doesn’t - their support of the Russian Federation’s invasion has always been critical, not full. Just like their support for Hamas is critical - it’s extremely obvious that neither the capitalist-run RF nor the Islamist Hamas are groups they agree with at all.
(I am not a campist, I’m simply explaining the campist concept of “critical support”)
They fully support the Russian invasion and genocide of Ukraine though, hence the hypocrisy.
Did you know that inventing “genocides” based on perceived vibes and presenting them as equivalent to extremely real, well-documented, and universally agreed upon actual genocides is a form of genocide denial? Liberals such as yourself have been doing the work of fascists like this for a long time, this type of Holocaust denial is called “double genocide theory”.
Is your name Lenin Weave after the way you dodge criticism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war
Unless you think all the shit Russia is doing is just CIA propaganda.
Do you know what the word “allegation” means?
Do you also insist there’s a genocide in South Africa?
Is that the word used to describe Trump’s pedophilia?
It’s also the word to describe Hilary Clinton’s baby eating
Allegations of genocide
International recognition
As I said, by treating this as equivalent to the near universally recognized genocide in Gaza, you are engaging in a form of genocide denial. Funny, the map of (the very few) countries that recognize this has a large overlap with the map of countries that do the same form of denial with the Holocaust.
Because the ml instances support zionism…?
Ah but you see clearly opposing imperialism is just as bad as supporting it, I’m such an enlightened centrist
Please find the open Zionist admins and mods of major communities who are from .ml. They have their own issues, but Zionism isn’t one of them.
feels like brexit in that they will no longer have influence or discussion with their sworn enemies
they will just circle jerk on their marxist island
dbzer0
marxist island
lmao
Interesting that finally there starts to be some reprecusions for the Germans being so pro genocide. I know it’s a very small gesture in a very nish social media but I’m happy about it neverthe less.
Sadly that seems to be upsetting some 😞
A simplified world view is really tempting sometimes. What if I told you that fighting anti semitism and being pro genocide are two things that can be distinguished from each other?
Now if only the Germans realised that
tying the criticism of pissraeli state with antisemitism in general is antisemitic. “my fellow jewish people must be supportive of a genocidal settler colonial state” is a bad look that’ll bite the propagandists in the ass in the future and i feel sorry for the jewish people getting caught ip in that.
Bro shut your fucking zionist mouth up. Nobody likes you and nobody gives a flying fuck about your excuses for the pedo genocidal murder country. Stuff your holes with wrustels and stfu.
Sorry, but this is not how you talk to people.
Zionists barely count as people
🤭 Oh no… here is the catch tho: who supports pedofilia, cannibalism, genocide, rape, murder to innocent people is a not a person.
At best you are a stupid incel brainwashed by your family to love some religious fanatics, at worst you are a low life demon sitting in tel aviv doing propaganda. I do not have respect for demons and I only have pity for kids and dogs.
You are just fucking revolting.
ok.
Such a stupid move…
Down With Zionism and Friends of Zionism 
This user is suspected to have relations to Russo-Chinese state media and Marxist sympathies, please report any suspicious behavior to https://cia.gov/
You should read up on the position of germany before making dumb posts like this https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/aussenpolitik/regionaleschwerpunkte/nahermittlererosten/middleeastconflict-228366
Don’t bother engaging with the troll, they are clearly not arguing in good faith.
Thry send weapons to israel to maintain the occupation and continue the genocide
And i bet you believe the Ku Klux Klan isnt a racist organization because their leaders say so too?
Unlike you i actually bother to read and investigate, here is an article about how your favorite country has participated in Palestinian genocide since its “redemption” https://www.tni.org/en/article/germanys-support-for-the-israeli-occupation-and-genocide
Down With Zionism and Friends of Zionism
This user is suspected to have relations to Russo-Chinese state media and Marxist sympathies, please report any suspicious behavior to https://cia.gov/
