Plot twist: Theres still hackers in multiplayer even with all that crap plus rootkit they bundle with.
Just dont fucking play those games. Simple.
Which is so ridiculously easy in my head. But then I see like 4 million people playing and I’m wondering… Am I the crazy one?
When i see that many idiots being duped it just makes me feel superior~!
>:3cJoking aside, look at how foolish the median person is. That they are average means that literally half of humanity is even more foolish than they are.
Quantity may be a quality all its own but in light of such damning disqualifications it hardly matters at all.
Its gonna be really funny in a few years when we learn that TPM2 / Windows’ Specific Implementation of SecureBoot has a backdoor for the NSA, just like how the Kinect did.
And uh, no, it doesn’t matter if this happens intentionally via collaboration, or not, through incompetence.
Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
Turns out my ribs don’t actually care whether the boot that cracked them came from a decisive kick or because someone clumsily tripped over me.
(Also sufficiently advanced malice is often indistinguishable from incompetence by design: “oops we didn’t mean to, please forgive us and we pRoMiSe we won’t
get caughtdo it again!”)Yep, that last part is … basically the most important concept of running a large organization, if you’re a corpo/evil bureaucrat.
The obfuscation is the point.
The ‘I thought I was in compliance’ is the point.
The ‘this is too complex to assign blame simply’…
That is the fucking point, of designing and running a system that works in that way.
Way I see it, there’s two ways to address the “cheating” issue in multiplayer online games.
First, let’s establish that game cheats typically involve using another application to modify the game’s running code while it is loaded in memory.
Historically, anti-cheat has largely taken a “reactive” approach. Try to detect the hook / modification taking place, ban the player if it is detected. These systems and bans were often circumvented. There are entire games that I stopped playing because the experience was ruined for me - GTA Online and the late stages of Titanfall 2 are standouts in my mind.
With how the Windows device security landscape has changed In the 2020s (MacOS has had something similar for ages), there’s now the option of taking a “proactive” approach by preventing application memory from being tapped in the first place. These technologies, notably Secure Boot and TPM, help mitigate rootkits and malware that might steal sensitive information from application memory, as well as paving the way for other protection measures like disk encryption.
And that’s the main part they’re interested in - by ensuring the entire process up through the kernel cannot be tampered with, the anti-cheat is going to be highly effective at pre-empting anyone from attempting the cheat to begin with.
It really sucks that, in the curent landscape, that means there are a handful of games that I can’t play on my Linux devices. But it also makes sense - Proton runs with many layers beneath it, which would make it trivial to tamper with memory and engage in cheating.
I’m hopeful that we’ll someday see a solution that opens up the opportunity for the same degree of integrity protection in Linux so that anyone can enjoy any game on the operating system of their choosing.
Regardless of what others have to say about EA or the franchise (and boy do they have their issues), Battlefield has always been a beloved series for me. I’m having a blast in Battlefield 6 and I have yet to encounter any cheaters. Previous entries in the series would see me hopping to a new server whenever I encountered one or, on some occasions, ending my play session out of frustration. Anecdotally, the cheating felt much more prevalent before.
I have a lot less time to game than I used to, so that time is sacred to me. While I’d obviously prefer another way, maintaining a Windows system and enabling two BIOS settings (well, leaving them enabled - they’re on by default) has been worth it for me.
That’s a false dichotomy though. There are ways to prevent cheating that don’t rely on the security of the client against the owner of the device on which the client runs (which is what both of what your ‘ways’ are).
For one thing, it has long been a principle of good security to validate things on the server in a client-server application (which most multi-player games are). If they followed the principle of not sending data to a client that the user is not allowed to see, and not trusting the client (for example, by doing server-side validation, even after the fact, for things which are not allowed according to the rules of the game), they could make it so it is impossible to cheat by modifying the client, even if the client was F/L/OSS.
If they really can’t do that (because their game design relies on low latency revelation of information, and their content distribution strategy doesn’t cut it), they can also use statistical server-side cheat detection. For example, suppose that a player shoots within less than the realistic human reaction time of turning the corner when an enemy is present X out of Y times, but only A out of B times when no enemy is present. It is possible to calculate a p-value for
X/Y - A/B(i.e. the probability of such an extreme difference given the player is not cheating). After correcting for multiple comparisons (due to multiple tests over time), it is possible to block cheaters without an unacceptable chance of false positives.
Welp, doesn’t run in proton. Next on the list…
What game is this? so I know what company to never buy from again.
Battlefield 6 by EA, which is now privately owned by the Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund, Silver Lake, and Affinity Partners
You mean if I play EA games I will be supporting a murderous regime that engaged in the largest terrorist attack on US soil resulting in the massive loss of our rights?
Oh darn, I guess I won’t be missing much.
I know all about EA’s sellout.
Call Of Duty Black Ops 7, however im hearing Battlefield 6 is also in the same boat.
Want some nostalgia? Plutonium for Black Ops 2 is still relatively alive with a crap ton of modded servers. Game is still fun to play.
One that obviously isn’t worth playing.
Lmfao at this one dude literally losing his shit and defending this repeatedly in the comments like a fucking Microsoft white knight
He once got killed by a hacker and lost all his marbles.
Nice of Steam to warn you though.
True
They check the other requirements too, presumably
Just play an indie game, these games will only enshittify more and more.
Exactly, and you’ll save tons of money too. ETS2 goes on sale for $5, stardew valley for $7.50, vintage story doesn’t go on sale but it’s only $22. All games that are way more fun, way less buggy, and have way more replay value than every piece of triple a junk i’ve played
“enshittification” and it’s toggling two things in the BIOS, with one of them being literally required already by Windows 11, and the other being important for security to the point it should be toggled on anyways.
People have done what you say, and they’ve literally reset their motherboard with no immediate solution other than taking it to their computer repair shop. And that might even guarantee you get the motherboard back.
Very out of touch and elitist. Fuck off
the tpm does not add any security whatsoever for windows 11, and secure boot is being used to lock your control out of your own system. secure boot enabled with machine owner keys wouldn’t be enough either for these games
secure boot enabled with machine owner keys wouldn’t be enough either for these games
They should be able to check which signing keys were used for every part of the boot process. Unless they want to be colossal assholes and check the MOK as well, they could still verify what they need without flagging Linux Secure Boot dual-booters as cheaters.
Microsoft provides SB shims for some linux distributions, so it wouldn’t mean locking out all linux players.
secure boot is being used to lock your control out of your own system
Care to elaborate?
these games only accept the secure boot setup where the root key is that of microsoft’s. that means that you either need windows with a pre-approved configuration in some regards (notable difference: any foss kernel drivers are nono because they won’t ever be signed) or a linux system for which microsoft gives a secureboot shim with whatever further restrictions.
the consequences are more obvious if you look at android as an example. It’s not called secure boot there, but android verified boot, and the turning off of it is called “bootloader unlocking”. very few phones support installing your own signing keys so you can’t take advantage of it with a bloatless android distribution. but even on phones that do, there are many apps that require a locked bootloader with the factory keys, including banking apps, nfc payment apps, government apps (including those that are required to access the online government account), entertainment apps with strict DRM, …
these games only accept the secure boot setup where the root key is that of microsoft’s.
I have a PC where I could actually test this. Custom MOK but with all the MS signatures in the database. I can boot into Windows through the BIOS using only the MS-signed bootloader instead of GRUB or any chain loader, and Windows itself considers Secure Boot to be enabled successfully.
Do you know if it would immediately reject the game from launching, or would I be flagged and banned later as some kind of ban wave?
The latter is something I would prefer to avoid.
I think there’s some linux command to query the installed keys, but here I have only found the command for listing all the installed mok keys: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface/Secure_Boot
I can boot into Windows through the BIOS using only the MS-signed bootloader instead of GRUB or any chain loader, and Windows itself considers Secure Boot to be enabled successfully.
I assume that’s because your motherboard still has the microsoft keys installed besides the MOK keys, and it verified the bootloader with that. thats why it accepts the ms signed bootloader. as I know not all motherboards allow removing it, and there are a few buggy ones that get hard bricked if you do that.
Yeah, they’re are. I used sbctl to enroll and manage my own keys, and I chose to include the MS ones to ensure dual booting still worked properly.
Because of that hard-bricking motherboard problem, choosing to not include the MS keys is actually more effort due it being gated behind a flag and a mountain of warnings.
Literally NOT “required” by Windows 11. You can install 11 without TPM2 support just fine.
Indeed you can!
If you enable the core isolation and memory integrity features, which rely on the TPM, the system will slog down to less than potato speed.
Sure, but do you think the average user will actually take their time to find ways to do it unless they REALLY want to install it and their computer doesn’t support it?
No, because:
- the comment was about how it’s not “required”, not how easy it is (thanks to Microsoft hiding the toggles).
- Anyone who cares enough is just going to install Linux instead of a tweaked Windows piece of shit.
I got tired of Windows pulling this shit with my 4th gen Xeon and 6th gen Core i7 (laptop) that, when they died, I replaced them both with Macs. Always wanted to be a Mac user. Now I am.
I know, “Apple isn’t much better,” but at least I can say I voted with my wallet. Just buying another PC, even if I could find one without a Windows license, and installing Linux, would not have been enough of a shift. Plus I feel I would have just came back to Windows anyway.
What game is it? Name and shame.
Black Ops 7. Its got plenty of shaming going on for other reasons already but this is the first time ive seen this message.
Why am I not surprised. More of Microsoft trying to enforce this bullshit now that they own CoD.
EA does the same thing with Battlefield 6. It’s for the anti-cheat.
Secure boot. TPM2.0. And a kernel level anticheat on top.
Yet, still hackers in game.
I’ve been no-lifing the game since launch and have yet to see any hackers…
It’s odd that I’ve only seen complaints about there being hackers in the game in the context of the anti-cheat. Nobody that I’ve played with or any of the people in my games have complained about hackers, yet every conversation involving the TPM/ secure boot bullshit (which I agree is ridiculous and invasive) involves multiple claims of hackers.
I almost begin to wonder if anecdotal experiences are being fabricated to push a narrative, but then I remember it’s impossible to lie on the internet.
While I agree people’s experiences vary wildly, there’s plenty recorded gameplay video that shows it happening.
That aside, they can take their invasive measures and shove it up their cloud where it can and should operate, not on my goddamn machine.
Do you have any links to these videos?
Havent experienced a single hacker in BF6 and ive played since launch. Maybe you’re mistaking skilled players for cheaters?
Maybe anecdotal evidence from any single person isn’t enough to go on either way, but the topic at hand that video games need access to secure encryption hardware to run probably isn’t super cool should be the discussion
Does it? Other than the campaign being kinda ass and a bunch of assets being AI I don’t think there’s much to complain about this game. The matchmaking is old school, lobbies don’t disband, and the gameplay on MP is solid.
Also, the fact you’re complaining about hackers on it is funny, considering I have literally seen none in the 25 hours I played the Beta and the 5 hours I’ve played the live version so far. All that happened is the aim assist got nerfed so people who are actually cracked on KBM can actually kill people before getting aimbotted by the thumbless controller players.
Not personal, just venting.
As someone who arrrr’d CoD4, MW2, a couple others I don’t remember, and then a friend bought me BO3 for the co-op zombies last year (and my god that menu system is a massive piece of shit), I tried the public beta of 7 like a month ago…
I had to make an account, agree to… 5, I think, different bullshit terms of fuck-you-pay-me, enable SB, figure out the awful menu system again (I’m noticing a trend here), and while the zombies mode was… tolerable, it’s basically the same thing as prior games, just with a new price tag. And, what particularly grinds my gears (assuming the list thus far isn’t bad enough), you cannot download the entire game? Like it requires you to stream it. I have a 4TB raid0 PCIe (add-on style) nvme card, unless the game is a literal terabyte+, I want a full copy. That drive was literally $999 when I got it a few years ago, “I paid for the entire thing and I want to use the entire thing”. Let the console players use their bandwidth to temporarily cache shit, but I have the fucking space, piss off.
Fast forward 10 years when the servers shutter and the game you paid for is missing fucking necessary assets and is thus bricked in a new moronic way. Oh, you wanted to play single player? Hook up for some LAN fun? Nah fuck you, content not available. Retry?
And this shit is $80 base? “I remember when” angry grandpa but they can get fucked. You want $80 for a game that will die in a decade, and I should be grateful for the privilege? Thank you sir, may I 'ave some more?
Maybe I’ll fire up CoD4 again, me and a friend against aimbotting bots. Fun, all local, and Activision can’t nuke it at the flick of a switch.
grumble grumble
Other than a bad campaign, unapologetic AI slop, kernel-level anticheat, a $70 price tag, and being yet another uninspired formulaic installation of a franchise that peaked during the Bush administration, what’s not to like?
Yeah, and then you go back to Steam with your smug-ass smile and boots up Counter-Strike 2 to play the exact same maps with the exact same strategies you were doing in 1999, except now the smoke dissipates with gunfire. So fucking original!
At least they dont release a new counter strike every year with negative new features and a $80 entry fee, in the process leaving your game from last year to die.
Plus CS is an actual good game, cod is just yearly slop
Funny how you say “So fucking original!” as if you aren’t still booting up COD (the thing that stays the same or gets worse, rather than better).
Never played a Counter Strike game, actually!
I haven’t played in yeeeears, but this still hurts my heart a little. So many memories.
battlefield 6 does this, among others
Embark has been killing it. The Finals and Arc Raiders have been filling my multiplayer shooters on Linux needs.
Embark is based!! I am actually ok giving them my money because they treat their customers right!!!
Embark said they’re cooperating with Codeweavers to ensure compatibility with Proton.
This isn’t the Hunt Showdown approach of “we let you in but if we break stuff you’re on your own”, they rolled out a new anti-cheat and said they want us penguins to still play these games
Basically any multiplayer AAA slop recently.
AAA in quotes ofc
They certainly leave a lot to be desired, but AAA is just “had way too much fucking money to make/market this”.
Those “features” are not about security. They’re about uniquely identifying the system without using, “personally identifiable information”.
Is everyone in this fucking thread Twitter-levels of paranoid to the point you could rival H.P. Lovecraft??? What are ya’ll even saying. Please get some tech literacy. You cannot identify a system through Secure Boot/TPM 2.0. Microsoft and every gaming company with anti-cheats can do that by simply checking all of your hardware’s signatures.
rofl you ask for tech literacy, yet have no idea how TPM uniquely identifies a computer… Irony is an understatement.
You’re the exact kind of overconfidant, beligerantly stupid user these corporations pine for. What do you think is included in those hardware signatures? How does Apple use a TPM chip to sign off on what other components are allowed to operate in the machine?
If you cannot answer those two basic questions, then it becomes very clear which one of us needs more tech literacy, because they’re not only used to uniquely identify your hardware.
Ironic comment
This was funny to read, can’t deny ur right
The games that require secure boot/tpm already are installing kernel level “malware” so they can do much more with that than they can by knowing if you have tpm or not (which you do because you are playing, so 100% of their userbase will have it).
Yeah I dont need to play any game that requires me to allow spyware.
I just won’t play such games. Simple as.
I hate the idea of software/hardware that can prove that the user does not have control over it so much
Welp, vote with your wallet. Money is the only thing these companies understand.
the problem is that the overwhelming majority of gamers are short sighted little gremlins who need constant access to new shiny to feel validated.
Sure, they come on the internet to yell and scream about the horrid injustice of it all, but the second the vile evil company that they’ll never again support releases their next game… they are at gamestop preordering the 800 dollar super legendary edition.
There are people who actually do follow through, I am one of them… There are several companies on my shit list that I will never buy from again, and in over a decade have not bought from them. . . but people that actually follow through on it are too rare to make a difference.
A lot of gamers tend to also be teenagers/young adults who just want to play a game with their friends in their social group. I was a kid once too after all so its understandable. However its the “just want to play with my friends” crowd that enables the industries worst practices by being consumers who think of yearly video game release hype cycles as vehicles of social interaction instead of caring about games as an art form thats being slowly degraded by corporate cuckery over time.
You are fighting the LORD’s cause, son, the LORD’s.
You say this as if we weren’t inside a big echo chamber of turbonerds right now. Everyone here already knows it. The actual way is to convince your less tech inclined friends and family.
