I have omnivore dentition. To take advantage of it I consume seitan through raw spinach through rare prime rib. The rest of you are welcome to dine on whatever.
Do I even get a choice in the matter? I hat this town. J tried to escape with tofu, cant even sneakily become vegan.
I forgot who I stole it from, but veganism is my favorite example of a position that has nearly unassailable reasoning, but is still utterly unconvincing to most people.
The age old question. Do people make decisions using reasoning? Or do they make decisions based on emotions, and rationalise them afterwards using their reasoning?
Just eat less meat. You don’t have to go 0-100. Skip the patty, skip the filet. Double up on proteins. Dairy shouldn’t be an end goal but substitute the actual meat for dairy for at least some reduction. Pick the food that is vegan instead of the one using meat stock, etc. Little things here and there. Default to meatless, eat the damn meat if you absolutely have to. Increase this change over time, and make sure to add a vegan B12 supplement. 80% is better than 100%. 60% is better than 80% when you get there. Maybe someday you hit 0%. Achieve perfect through gradual change, don’t shun good if you can’t be perfect.
This is the best advice you can give someone imo. Im like 75% vegan, still have eggs and bacon on the weekends, some chicken with dinner, some other stuff here and there. But mostly its beans/tofu and rice with veggies.
Some people think they have to give up everything all at once right now and of course that seems overwhelming… because it is.
Perfectionism is often used as a shield to prevent change or to avoid challenging yourself or your own rigid thinking. When you see someone saying it’s all or nothing they’re actively sabotaging themselves, often that’s exactly what they want to be doing, plausible deniability
Nah
Imagine someone being disturbed because you choose not to eat something. 🤣
It’s usually vice versa: someone who chose not to eat something is disturbed by anyone and everyone else who does not do the same
Well the meat industry does in fact affect climate (synthetic fertilizers are made with fossil methane), which indeed disturbs everyone.
But whatever you choose not to eat has absolutely no effect on anyone.
I won’t argue for most of the animal-based market but I reject the idea that eggs are inherently unethical. Some of the ways they are produced certainly are (the vast majority even, I assume), but chickens just lay eggs in their day to day life and I don’t think anything is wrong with eating them, though I do acknowledge that finding ethical options is probably more complex than just paying a bit extra for the free range cartons.
I should find a local producer again, then they are usually both cheaper and not factory farmed.
Wild hens lay 10 to 15 eggs a year. We selectively bred them into the horror of daily laying.
Guinea hens lay 30 - 180 depending on climate, food availability and predation in the wild. Domestic hens are not “bred” into daily laying, their instinctive nature to fill the nest drives them. Appropriate feed, housing and hydration allows that. That, in no way, excuses industrial egg production. However, small numbers raised as pets for egg production are treated very well and mourned at their passing. Is that acceptable?
We did a similar thing with sheep, they shouldn’t have that much wool at all
Yeah this is why I could maybe be vegetarian in the future but never vegan.
no need to try to argue
Didn’t realize they are the king of what can be argued.
Well now you do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well obviously this person disagrees 🤷
Tldr: my jagged journey to being a shitty vegan started with admitting it was ethically superior and then just trying things for fun/challenge.
That was my attitude basically ever since I seriously thought about the ethics for maybe 10 whole minutes. I mean it’s obvious. But it didn’t impact anything I did until I lived on my own for a while. Then I started by cutting out the obviously reprehensible options like restaurants that support factory farming, cheap machine produced stuff, etc. I’d still eat trash from time to time, but I tried to shop for more ethical sounding options, like free to roam stuff.
Many years later I slowly started cooking vegetarian meals more than anything else, and would joke with my wife "look: totally vegan… Except for all the cheese lol. " 100% vegan meals then became a personal challenge then, so tried to make them good without cheese. Nothing bad happened.
I always said I could never be vegan because of cheese, but then I thought what if I JUST quit cheese and dairy (just obvious sources, but not like if it’s in a piece of toast and I can’t tell). Again nothing bad happened. Actually my vegetarian friends were really supportive and showed me lots of vegan dishes.
I still had eggs every day for breakfast and the occasional fish, like sardines or tuna sandwiches. I didn’t know how I could ever quit my morning eggs, and had even tried a couple times.
Then I saw a vegan thread on lemmy here and just asked someone what they ate for breakfast and they gave me a few ideas and I decided to try yet another tofu scramble and that just did it.
I did feel sluggish for a day or two, and maybe a little bit “off” for a week but not even as bad as a cold. Kind of like a hangover. I just stuck with it and ate a bit more to make up for any loss in nutrition, throw in a daily vitamin, and that was just it. And yup, nothing bad happened. Eventually I felt great. The whole time I guess it was just a couple sluggish days away from me.
I said maybe I’d eat meat or dairy just to be easy from time to time, but then Thanksgiving came and went and I really didn’t feel like it. I just brought lentil patties and ate some sides until I wasn’t hungry anymore. Easy peasy.
If anything I feel like going vegan has de-dramatised food and eating for me. It’s simple: you just eat nutritious food that makes you feel good, until you’re satisfied.
But I’m just at the outset. I don’t vet everything, I just don’t partake in anything that is made with animal products as far as I can tell, and as much as I easily can.
I think I could easily go vegan 5 days a week, but I could never give up my weekend breakfasts with eggs, cheese, and the occasional sausage or bacon. Not to mention the homemade lattes :(
We’ll both catch flack from the good vegans, but if that’s what you think you can handle, go for it. Just keep an open mind and keep experimenting. :)
If you do it, you can say you’re still 5/7 days superior, and that’s a perfect score
Obligatory mention that you don’t need to cut out meat from your life entirely to have a significant impact on your carbon footprint and your health. Going mostly vegetarian is also an option and its basically been the default of humanity since the agricultural revolution.
“But it’s awkward in social settings”, “What if I’m going out to eat”, “What if it’s the only option”, “What if I am trying but don’t realize something has an animal product”
Idk dude then eat meat in those settings I guess. 95% of your food is consumed outside of those settings so just be 95% vegan or vegetarian.
It’s really beef that is the vast majority of emissions just cutting that out of your diet gets most of the environmental benefits of vegetarian.
And sheep. Cutting dairy is generally a pretty easy swap.
In this economy I’m buying less meat just because it’s so expensive
Sadly the price of beans and tofu is also rising, unless you buy in bulk.
25lbs of pinto beans and 20 lbs of dry rice is a month of staple meals and costs ~$35 at costco
I’ve had this exact mentality until one day I just stopped eating meat, and generally nothing bad happened to me. It’s not like I miss it, I didn’t lose anything, there’s no sacrifice in my daily life. I just no longer participate in the direct consumption of the product of (still existing and still supported by my work via taxes) the terrible pipeline of infinite suffering, which is something I guess. In the past I’ve also quit smoking and I can tell you dropping animal products from my diet was much easier. So much, it felt underwhelming.
I don’t tend to talk about it, because I know how my “whining” about meat eating would be perceived, especially remembering how I myself loathed anyone who tried to convince me that eating meat might be bad. It’s just such a silly thing to defend and keep doing. Just gobble up those beans, man. They’re delicious. Leave the cow alone. Organize to overthrow the capital class. Marinate your tofu. Don’t be silly. Kill fascists, not the piggies. Come on.
I have a little suffering every now and then as a treat. But I have greatly reduced my intake.
But I like being silly!
Yeah the vegans are definitely right.
Munches on my cheese
Non-vegans should support vegans, even if they continue to eat meat, because vegans drive better treatment of animals and also drive more attractive non-animal food options.
However, a person must have a brain and also not have meat eating tied to their masculinity.
Lower demand for animal products lowers prices for others.
Non-vegans should support vegans
What really drives me mad is that there’s a dead simple solution - lab-grown meat - that can obviously be the best of both worlds with a bit more development (and in fact is being commercialized already), but is being lobbied against by the meat industry precisely because it’ll be cheaper and better. And nobody seems to be talking about it.
My meat eating isn’t even close to being tied to my masculinity. I hardly even care how myself and others perceive my masculinity.
My meat eating is nearly entirely tied to my enjoyment of the taste of meat.
Keep telling yourself that bro
As a cis dude who wears skirts, pink ball caps, and like dick as much as pussy… Please tell me how much my perceived masculinity matters to me.
Just because someone likes feminine stuff doesn’t mean they can’t also be attached to masculine aspects of themselves.
Okay Keep telling yourself that. Whatever you need to feel better about yourself.
Ecofeminism has a lot to say about meat/masculinity/fascism.
Yeah, you can’t say the conditions we’re subjecting livestock to is “good”. You don’t give up your rights to eat bbq if you admit it.
Fun fact: The actor in this scene is vegetarian, so they used mushrooms instead of steak
Which is kind of wild, because I don’t know if a steak has ever looked better on film than the cut shown in this scene. I understand that sentiment may not hold true for folks on vegetarian or vegan diets based on ethical grounds, but that may as well be the Platonic ideal of “fancy steak”.
Visually, yes.
However I’ve not met a mushroom that tastes and feels like beef. Impossible burgers get close but it’s far from a steak.
I make mushroom steak from lions mane. My meat eater friends say its a pretty damn good substitute
Have you tried the
impossibleBeyond steak? Highly recommendI’ve never had Impossible Steak. Do you like Beyond? I’ve noticed some people like one or the other.
Have you tried Lions Mane steak?
Herbivorous Butcher is really good too and they have a cookbook to make your own.
Every time I visited the twin cities I’d stop by their shop and stock up on a bunch of stuff. Their vegan BBQ ribs and vegan chorizo were so good. I heard that their store burned down a few years ago, but I didn’t realize they kept their online shop open!
Yea, it’s funny because when I heard about them, I heard they made a cookbook after closing down. Like Miyoko’s new books. That it was just a local shop.
I only found the site from looking for the cookbook and found out they are still running and ship now.
Oh shoot my bad I actually meant beyond steak- I kinda hate the taste of everything Impossible makes lol
Whooaa, cool! I haven’t but I definitely need to; thanks for sharing!
There was a brand called Meati that made steaks out of mycelium that were so goddamn good. Closest to the real thing I’ve had so far. Unfortunately some shady financial shenanigans cost them their production plant. There’s a new owner trying to get them up and running again though so fingers crossed there.
I used to see their billboard a lot when I worked in Downtown Denver. Never got to try it.
Funner fact: the actor in the original Oldboy is also vegan, but he still ate that live octopus.
He’s vegetarian not vegan. It’s incredibly hard to be a vegan in korea, but it’s very easy to be a vegetarian. The vast majority of halmeoni cooking your food over there basically equivocate vegetarianism and vegan to be the same thing. A lot of traditional foods have hidden animal products in it like shrimp paste for seasoning.
I once tried talking to my like 85 year old Korean granny about it and she strongly explained to me that things like krill were more like plants than animals, which in some ways is kinda true.
It’s incredibly hard to be a vegan in korea, but it’s very easy to be a vegetarian.
A lot of traditional foods have hidden animal products in it like shrimp paste for seasoning.
Sounds like it’s easy to be a pescatarian, but not actually a vegetarian.
Again, it’s kinda weird. I would say it’s fairly easy to be vegetarian since there’s a cultural understanding of vegetarians due to the cultural/religious practices of Buddhist monks.
For one, they typically have more bland foods, and typically live in the mountainous regions where there’s less access to sea food. And again, what a lot of east Asian people consider meat varies from the western nomenclature.
Where instead of basing the ethical delineation on a scientific taxonomy, it’s based more on whether something possesses a soul/conscious. If we examine the issue through that lens it can make sense that an invertebrate like a krill or even coral are closer to plants than mammals.
So nothing, basically.
TIL 200k tons of krill are harvested each year.
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Same in Japan… it’s so hard to be vegan.
Ahhh, okay. I thought I had read he was vegan, maybe I misremembered or maybe the article was wrong.
May have been the article if it was originally from a Korean source. Like I said they tend to use vegan and vegetarian interchangeably a lot.
That’s slightly less fun. I’ll eat a pig or a chicken or a cow but octopodes are too smart for me to eat.
Same. cephalopods in general for me. I still feel bad about eating meat otherwise but I can’t even think about eating octopus
I eat smart things only to get smarter. You are what you eat after all. Octoponi, Chimpansessies, Peeps, Dolphones, etc. Ant too since I want hive mind. My brain grows.
Okay Sylar…
I stopped eating them recently for that reason.
Pigs are smarter than dogs, that’s what makes em taste so good!
Just realised looking at this that it’s the same actor as Ralph from The Sopranos. I’ve watched both recently too!
But who plays Cypher in the Matrix in The Sopranos universe?
Ralphie
TIL!!!
And Ralph’s wig in The Sopranos is modelled on Christopher Nolan’s hair when he was directing Memento, which also stars the same actor.
Everyone I know actually unironically feels this way lol and always comes to me for advice on going more vegan. Vegan hatred is a strong flea dip for me though, basically any% criticism of vegans ensures I will likely never speak to you again.
Is it awful of me to have stopped eating meat from animals I think are beautiful and sweet, like cows and pigs, but still eat meat from some animals I think are ugly and mean, like chickens and sheeps?
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As a non-vegan, that seems to be morally neutral to me (you’re still eating meat), barring differences in treatment and ecological impact of specific animals (I think cows are particularly bad in terms of environmental impact?)
What did a sheep ever do to you!? They’re cute! What do you mean they’re ugly and mean!
Is this some weird reaction to ‘Keep the Sheep’?
To respond to the question, I think the vibe of this comment section would be ‘not awful’, maybe not the best reasoning, but not awful.
Sheep aren’t mean. Just very, very, very stupid.
Agree! We raised three lambs at home and they were all unbelievably stupid and slightly suicidal.
If we go by bug logic, if it’s a freaky little bloodsucking chicken than maybe but I’m still not sure honestly
Oh but otherwise no that’s mean c’mon what’d chickens do
Id eat owls and raccoons because they like to murder the chickens. Does eating then for revenge count lol
As long as you serve them cold?
I get it. It’s like when nazis killed jews because they thought they are icky
What are your thoughts on someone going into the woods and catching wild game?
If I go out into the woods and kill a person to eat, it is better than if I enslave a family, force them to breed, and then eat them one by one in perpetuity.
Similarly, hunting is better than factory farming, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to do, outside of some niche conservation projects.
Thank you for your perspective!
Those are the kings woods and they should be hanged.
He deered to kill a King’s dare.
Keep your monarchy to yourself lol
Are you doing it for sport or are you doing it to meet nutritional needs in lieu of factory farming / expensive and mass-produced plant proteins? This might be a controversial take but IMO hunting wild game can be morally superior to going vegan using supermarket products because of the ecologically destructive nature of modern industrial agriculture. Hunting can be done responsibly in a way that does not harm or even benefits the ecosystem, but it’s very difficult to exercise moral discretion in all of your grocery purchases due to a lack of transparency in supply chains.
To meet nutritional needs in lieu of factory farming / expensive and mass-produced plant proteins!
I’ve also been contemplating a small flock of chickens.
basically any% criticism of vegans ensures I will likely never speak to you again.
Tbh this is kind of a stupid behavior, if it’s a valid criticism i don’t see why you’d have to react like that
It’s not, because criticising “vegans” is done to avoid discussing veganism, which is objectively better than meat eating. This does not include people who say, argue whether starving people should eat meat to survive, which is not a criticism of vegans. I’m open to discussing any real life actual moral paradigms with reasonable people.
Basically you’re assuming it’s not purely coincidence. Plenty of my friends eat meat lol. They’re just rational and not the type of person who thinks I deserve to be cross examined for the actions of all people who are also vegan. People who act like I should like, idk, answer for PETA? My life has objectively improved by letting those bridges burn naturally. It’s done wonders for my mental health.
because criticising “vegans” is done to avoid discussing veganism
In that case it’s probably not a valid criticism
Basically you’re assuming it’s not purely coincidence
I am not gettin this, sorry
Maybe don’t be a bot that doesn’t understand the social connotations around being vegan? Idk lol you are getting blocked
No really i did not understood the phrase, english is my 2nd language so I do not understand some stuff…but i guess we gotta be rude :/
I’m in this picture and feel pretty neutral about that.
One time I had a hardcore combo meth-heroin addict who was vegan who candidly told me something to the effect of ‘idgaf what I put in my body I just have a moral problem with the livestock industry’ and I was like ‘you know what, based.’ The core issue of that conversation was that dietary sent a roll with dinner and they were like ‘naaah I can tell by the texture they used cows butter’ and like many things in the hospital they’re probably right and also at least they recognized I had no way of fixing it.
No its not fine to oppress others even if you know you are wrong to. You sound like a founding father who writes that slavery is wrong but brutally exploits slaves anyway.
Yup. The leftism leaves so many leftists’ bodies the moment animal liberation comes up. If you recognize the problem, don’t be complacent on the solution.
Unlike so many other rights struggles, basic veganism doesn’t require action, but rather the cessation of harmful actions. In that regard, it’s easier than taking action against other forms of exploitation: simply stop consuming animal products. Plant-based alternatives are readily available (I went vegan in a food desert) and are better for you than eating some poor animal’s flesh.
This was me and I still think it’s important to sit with this incongruity rather than try to weasel your way out of it with broken logic. Sit with the discomfort of being in conflict with your own ethical knowledge and let it work on you.
I’m not going to look down on someone who eats animal products even though they know better, because I was them not long ago. I know what it feels like to be on both sides of this, as do most vegans.
I would just urge them to keep thinking about it and trying in different little ways to reduce their reliance on animal products here and there.
If you’re open minded about veganism and the problems with animal farming you’re so much closer than you think to actually being able to do it yourself.
This was me and I still think it’s important to sit with this incongruity rather than try to weasel your way out of it with broken logic. Sit with the discomfort of being in conflict with your own ethical knowledge and let it work on you.
100% agree. That’s why I detest people that know it’s wrong, and then say things like what OP in the meme does about how you can “just be wrong” and “just live your life” at the expense of your victims. It’s not a personal choice when there are victims involved, and when you know there are victims and you have the ability to stop, you need to stop.
But when it comes to actually talking to people about this stuff, I agree with gently encouraging them to not run away from their cognitive dissonance and to follow those thoughts to their logical conclusions.
The biggest hurdle, is the meat-eating culture, and how it is the dominant one in many places, right now. People need certain mental strenght to go againt the culture around them, especially when they have been raised up with it, and not all have that. If all people around you are vegans, and it is considered the norm, a lot of people would become vegan too, just to fit in. As long as meat-eating is seen as normal and people are raised to believe it is normal, many people will continue, even if they agree vegans are right.
Certainly I would have a hard time being vegan if I visited Korea for instance, but there are ways. I look at them as different difficulty settings.
Also, the ethos is to avoid harming animals as much as practicable which will vary by individual and situation.
You can be a shitty vegan, it’s not against the rules hehe. Like you can avoid obvious meat or dairy but not bother reading the fine print—that’s better than most people. Or you can try your best but then go eat your craving on the second Sunday of every month, or give yourself two Mulligans a week, or whatever you want. There really are no rules.
Though I’d argue that once you secure your sources of regular plant based food, it’s actually quite easy to just go all the way and stick with it.
Be the change. We’d get nowhere if everyone lets that stop them.
Oh yes, absolutely. I was trying more to make a point, about how it is important to understand the reasons behind, if we want to affect that behavior.
